Mormons Made Great Nazis

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
User avatar
Everybody Wang Chung
God
Posts: 1681
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:52 am

Mormons Made Great Nazis

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

The history of German Mormons during WWII is fascinating and little known, until now. And the fact that the Church has been something less than forthright about this period and their own anti-Semitism in its history only compounds the mistakes that were made. I've just started reading Moroni and the Swastika: Mormons in Nazi Germany by David Conley Nelson, after listening to excerpts from the Book by Nemo The Mormon. If you're interested, the entire book is online for free here: https://archive.org/stream/moroni-and-t ... 9_djvu.txt

There is often a tendency of the Church to excuse appeasement of tyrants and acceptance of injustice on the grounds that it was the prevailing culture at the time ("lots of people hated Jews back then" or "slavery was widely accepted") or that it was necessary in order to survive. The author, Mr. Nelson, effectively rebuts those notions by showing how many other faiths were able to navigate these treacherous waters in a way that allowed them to remain true to their Christian beliefs without endangering their existence.

I was shocked to learn that some faithful Mormons engineered and installed the gas chambers. Some faithful Mormons were directly responsible for running the extermination camps. Some faithful Mormons were brown shirts who bashed Jewish heads and vandalized Jewish businesses. Some faithful Mormons even made it into Hitler's inner circle.
Assured by their church leaders that there was no conflict in being a good Mormon and a good citizen of the Nazi State, German Mormons
dutifully served in the Nazi Labor Corps and the German military. Other Latter-day Saints enthusiastically donned the brown shirts of Hitler's Sturmabteilung (SA), an organization that bashed heads in the streets and vandalized Jewish businesses. Some joined for more benign reasons, such as the Hamburg congregants who enjoyed playing in the local SA band. Other Mormons obtained membership in Hitler's elite group of personal guards, the black-shirted Schutzstaffel (SS), an organization that expanded to play a leading role in the Holocaust. One Hamburg member, infamous among his fellow congregants for having killed one of Hitler’s political opponents in a street fight, enlisted in the Totenkopfverbande, the Death’s Head SS brigades that ran the extermination camps. Another Mormon appeared in an early scholarly article as an “expert mechanic” who “install[ed] specialized machinery” at Auschwitz.“ In the parlance of Nazi Germany, that is a euphemism for someone who set up gas chambers and crematoria.
When a Mormon decided to stand up to the evil of Hitler, just like Helmuth Hübener did, they were almost immediately excommunicated.
The most prominent memory beacon in this narrative is an intelligent, idealistic, faithful young Mormon named Helmuth Hiibener, sixteen years old when he began listening to the forbidden wartime broadcasts of the British Broadcasting Corporation. Convinced that the Nazi propaganda machine did not truthfully account for German wartime losses, he used his congregation’s typewriter to produce anti-Hitler tracts that he and three friends—two of whom were Latter-day Saints—scattered around Hamburg. Convinced, as early as 1942, that Germany was losing the war, Hiibener wanted to incite a popular rebellion against the Nazis. Betrayed by a colleague at work, Helmuth Hiibener was tried by a Nazi tribunal and guillotined. Before his execution at age seventeen, his LDS congregational leader excommunicated the boy from the Mormon Church.
To paraphrase a Holocaust survivor, "My eyes have witnessed things no man should ever see. I've seen Priesthood holders shoot unarmed Jewish children, men and women. I've seen Relief Society members lead children into gas chambers. I've seen Deacons and Priests burn down businesses and homes. I will always remain skeptical of the benefits of religion, when its members can do, and did such monstrous and hideously evil acts."
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
drumdude
God
Posts: 5491
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: Mormons Made Great Nazis

Post by drumdude »

Mormons make great torturers too:
details have come out about the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques after 9/11 and the men who created them. Turns out that both Dr. John Bruce Jessen and Dr. James Mitchell, the two main architects of the techniques (later condemned as torture and ineffective by the Senate Intelligence Committee) are LDS, and Jessen was made a bishop several years later. This guy not only helped devise the torture techniques, but also carried them out and trained others to do so as well. This included fun and lighthearted games (/s) such as the following:

Stuff the prisoner in a tiny box and poke them through holes in the side.

Waterboarding (in some cases until prisoners became completely unresponsive, with bubbles rising from their mouth, having involuntary stomach and leg spasms, and when they woke up, hysterical pleas for them to stop)

Walling (putting the prisoner's neck in a collar, then using that collar to repeatedly slam them against a wall)

Dousing with buckets of ice water while naked and shackled

Dangling from the ceiling by the handcuffs for days on end to induce sleep deprivation

He was already a highly controversial public figure well before his calling as a bishop in Spokane Washington in 2012. His company made $81 million for their role in developing and implementing these techniques. You can bet he paid tithing on that torture money (thank goodness it didn't come from the lottery, or the church would have had to reject it!) The stake president who called him was well aware of his involvement but called him an honorable, trustworthy, and humble man and of course defended him (the church is awfully good at defending awful people) saying "the whole story has not been told." His name was submitted to the First Presidency for approval (as all potential bishops are), and the church spokesman refused to comment on the matter. He was unanimously sustained by his ward as well. He'd also served as bishop for another congregation in the '80s before all of the torture stuff went down. Luckily he resigned a week later, but holy hell, what poor taste in leadership! And how disturbing that nobody in his ward, stake presidency, or even the first presidency had any qualms about his appointment! I'm breaking out this story next time somebody defends that bishops are by default good people. Bishops don't deserve to be trusted or respected by default anymore than any random joe shmoe on the street. Some are good, some are bad, and members really need to be critical about who they trust with their spiritual lives and personal matters.
User avatar
Dr. Shades
Founder and Visionary
Posts: 2022
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Mormons Made Great Nazis

Post by Dr. Shades »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 12:46 am
Some faithful Mormons even made it into Hitler's inner circle.
I'm going to have to ask for a reference for that claim. Simply being a member of the SS was a far, FAR cry from being in Hitler's inner circle.
"It’s ironic that the Church that people claim to be true, puts so much effort into hiding truths."
--I Have Questions, 01-25-2024
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 6060
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Mormons Made Great Nazis

Post by Moksha »

Helmuth Hübener's unwillingness to comply would have made him a bad fit for BYU. His sentence may have been carried out by the Honors Committee Authorities.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Everybody Wang Chung
God
Posts: 1681
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:52 am

Re: Mormons Made Great Nazis

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 7:56 am
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 12:46 am
Some faithful Mormons even made it into Hitler's inner circle.
I'm going to have to ask for a reference for that claim. Simply being a member of the SS was a far, FAR cry from being in Hitler's inner circle.
Well, there is Erich Krause, among others:
Chapter 13 profiles a Mormon whose illumination had been totally darkened until a distant relative uncovered the story of an LDS commandant of a “wild” concentration camp.

Erich Krause had joined the Mormon Church in 1923 and then enrolled in the Hitler’s brown-shirted SA five years later. Mormonism and Nazism became his twin passions. Krause was the commandant of Berlin’s Pape Street prison in the mid-1930s, where he murdered and tortured Hitler’s political opponents. Communists and Social Democrats were the main targets of his sadism while Hitler consolidated his power. Then, during the war years, Krause sent postcards home to his family from Poland, where he served at the Einsatzgrup- pen liquidated the ghetto and loaded Jews on boxcars destined for the extermination camps. The cards reminded nhis children to attend their Mormon Sunday school lessons and say their prayers.

After the war, when Krause faced charges for crimes against humanity, an American Mormon mission president funded his pretrial bail from church funds and wrote letters to the court attesting to Krause’s good character. He escaped punishment on a legal technicality and started a new life. He became a trusted genealogical researcher in his German Mormon congregation before he died in the early 1980s.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
User avatar
Dr. Shades
Founder and Visionary
Posts: 2022
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Mormons Made Great Nazis

Post by Dr. Shades »

That's fine, but Herr Krause still doesn't qualify for Hitler's "inner circle," since they probably never met each other. To qualify as being in the inner circle, you and Hitler have to have each other on "speed dial," so to speak.
"It’s ironic that the Church that people claim to be true, puts so much effort into hiding truths."
--I Have Questions, 01-25-2024
Post Reply