What is Gravity?

[IWMP]

Magnetic field.

So, could we test that by putting powerful magnets next to a beam of light?

Haha.... Thought experiments over. Lol thanks.

Edit... Ima blame how tired I am lol. Think I might call the Dr tomorrow. Was checking my heart rate and yawned and my heart rate jumped up just because I yawned. Lol. Just yawned again and it happened again. Weird. Can't stop yawning and each time my HR has jumped up. O2 doesn't seem to correlate to that. Googled it. Apparently yawning does increase heart rate. Interesting. Kinda cool. Just walked to close the window and my heart rate jumped up to 125bpm. I have emailed the Dr. I already have dysautonomic issues so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm a bit potsy at the minute.

[Gadianton]

Valo,

Using chatGPT was a creative idea to get some baseline concept descriptions going when you had at least three people saying sorta the same thing but not for sure.

However, in your latest attempt, you're going well beyond its ability to generate answers. Remember, the "P" in GPT means "plagiarize".

From wikipedia:



As you can see from the picture, the DS's description of aether "going around the earth" as Michelson-Morley's assumption is false.

But it doesn't really matter. There is no possible analogy to wind that will make it consistent to the experiment's results. That is, light speed is ~300,000,000 mps no matter what angle you measure it from, no matter what frame of reference you measure it from.

Imagine a kid throwing a baseball toward you at 10 miles an hour. Now he gets on his skateboard, goes 10 mph on his board, and throws the ball exactly as hard as he threw it At rest. Relative to the kid, the ball travels 10 mph. Relative to a person the kid is skating toward, it travels 20 mph.

Imagine two kids playing with a jump rope, where one flicks the rope causing a wave to travel to the other kid. the speed of the wave is 10 mph. The kids get on a train car moving toward you at 10 mph; the speed of the wave is now 10 + 10 = 20 mph toward you.

Imagine a kid shining a flashlight at you. The speed of light measures at 300,000,000 mps. Kid gets on skateboard and hurls himself toward you at 10 mph. you measure the speed of light at ~300,000,000 mps + 10 mph??? hold that thought.

Now suppose instead of a kid with a skateboard, image you're on a planet moving with respect to the aether at 10 mph. If light propagates through aether like that jump-rope wave through the rope, then in should be the speed of the aether 10 mph + the speed of light. right?

If there were aether, that's a reasonable expectation. But no matter what direction light is measured from, trying to catch the tailwind or headwind through aether, it's always ~300,000,000 mps. If the kid on the skateboard, hurls toward you at 290,000,000 mps, and turns on his flashlight, it travels ~300,000,000 mps with respect to him, and ~300,000,000 mps with respect to you.

As weird as this all seems, the first thing you'd probably forget about is the idea that light is propagating through aether.

[Valo]

Valo,

Using chatGPT was a creative idea to get some baseline concept descriptions going when you had at least three people saying sorta the same thing but not for sure.

However, in your latest attempt, you're going well beyond its ability to generate answers. Remember, the "P" in GPT means "plagiarize".

From wikipedia:



As you can see from the picture, the DS's description of aether "going around the earth" as Michelson-Morley's assumption is false.

But it doesn't really matter. There is no possible analogy to wind that will make it consistent to the experiment's results. That is, light speed is ~300,000,000 mps no matter what angle you measure it from, no matter what frame of reference you measure it from.

Imagine a kid throwing a baseball toward you at 10 miles an hour. Now he gets on his skateboard, goes 10 mph on his board, and throws the ball exactly as hard as he threw it At rest. Relative to the kid, the ball travels 10 mph. Relative to a person the kid is skating toward, it travels 20 mph.

Imagine two kids playing with a jump rope, where one flicks the rope causing a wave to travel to the other kid. the speed of the wave is 10 mph. The kids get on a train car moving toward you at 10 mph; the speed of the wave is now 10 + 10 = 20 mph toward you.

Imagine a kid shining a flashlight at you. The speed of light measures at 300,000,000 mps. Kid gets on skateboard and hurls himself toward you at 10 mph. you measure the speed of light at ~300,000,000 mps + 10 mph??? hold that thought.

Now suppose instead of a kid with a skateboard, image you're on a planet moving with respect to the aether at 10 mph. If light propagates through aether like that jump-rope wave through the rope, then in should be the speed of the aether 10 mph + the speed of light. right?

If there were aether, that's a reasonable expectation. But no matter what direction light is measured from, trying to catch the tailwind or headwind through aether, it's always ~300,000,000 mps. If the kid on the skateboard, hurls toward you at 290,000,000 mps, and turns on his flashlight, it travels ~300,000,000 mps with respect to him, and ~300,000,000 mps with respect to you.

As weird as this all seems, the first thing you'd probably forget about is the idea that light is propagating through aether.

Very informative post. It's not as accurate as you want to project, is all. In order to participate in this adult conversation you must accept the premise that general relativity is flawed, in a big way. If you can't accept that premise, you can't be talking about the same thing as what this conversation is about

I'm gonna come down from my lofty position and speak to you as one frog speaks to another frog one more time...

Your approach to this is wrong. You are taking the perspective that it's a competition that must be won with facts and assertions and good arguments, etc.

Look that's not what's going on here! You don't need to prove anything to me and I'm not trying to prove anything to you.

It is the fact that Michael Sherwin is saying that this is the correct model that blocks you from even having a cogent, rational discussion about a hypothesis.

I expect you to keep staying in your bubble and doing what it is you do here.

[IWMP]

Everything is derived from the model. There are just a few parts to the model.

These are the components of the model.
1) There is aether
2) There is matter

Surely more components than this?

These are the states of each component of the model.
1) Aether pressurizes the universe
2) Matter is being held together

These are the interactions between the components of the model
1) Aether at the center of a particle of matter ceases to exist
2) A low pressure area is brought about when aether ceases to exist
3) Surrounding aether then rushes in and the process is continuous

How does the aether cease to exist if the aether is rushing in? What causes the aether to continue not existing to keep this process continuous?

4) When aether rushes through and into matter it transfers a momentum impulse to matter

These are the effects of the interaction between the components of the model
1) Gravity as a pushing force
2) Aether spiraling into an atom of matter creating an "electron cloud"

So is the aether electric charge or magnetic field then?

3) When the aether spirals further in it supplies the strong nuclear force

?

4) The aether also form vortex that interlock to supply weak nuclear forces

If the aether is responsible for all these forces, why do they all behave differently?

These are the observable consequences of the model
1) Light as a propagation wave through the aether
2) Electricity is aether being forced down a conductor

So aether has an electrical component?

3) Magnetism is atoms spinning in unison changing the direction of the aether
4) The big bang, enough of a pressure drop in the aether allowing the singularity to fly apart
5) Black hole, aether moving into matter faster than a propagation wave can escape
6) Halo around a star, The light from a star that is behind is bent by the moving aether when it passes the closer star

Gravity?

7) Ever expanding universe at an ever increasing rate, the aether is expanding always with acceleration
9) Sunspot cycle, Jupiter competing with the Sun for aether the closer they are the more unstable the Sun becomes

Predictions of the model
1) Light travels faster between the stars where the pressure is greater
2) Stars are not as far away as they seem
3) The rate of radioactive decay in unstable isotopes will increase over time
4) Other isotopes will become unstable
5) Stars will change from fusion to fission at some point
6) A long ice age will occur when a star changes from fusion to fission
7) Gravity will weaken
8) When gravity weakens far enough the universe will dissolve

In other words this model explains everything. And when something new is observed this model never requires modification.

I first proposed this model in 1969 when I was 12 years old.

Surely more components than this?


How does the aether cease to exist if the aether is rushing in? What causes the aether to continue not existing to keep this process continuous?

So is the aether electric charge or magnetic field then?

?

If the aether is responsible for all these forces, why do they all behave differently?

So aether has an electrical component?

Gravity?

The components of the model and the interaction were revealed to me in an instant by the Spirit while sitting in science class. All the rest is myself trying to show how it works, what it explains and predicts. And I think I did a rather good job! If you want to investigate the model I suggest you start with the components, states and interactions and see what you come up with!

The components you have given feel limiting. Science teaches that light and matter are interchangeable at the quantum level. We see light interacting with what is described as gravity or matter in space. The ether is the idea that something exists in which light can propagate through so that it marrys up nicely with classical physics. However, light doesn't behave by the same rules as matter. Why does light appear to bend when affected by gravity if gravity is proportional to mass and light has no mass. Does some kind of interaction occur that causes light to gain matter whilst bypassing an object of large mass, enough to cause a bend? What if it isn't bending at all but rather our perspective is perceiving it to have bent? What if the universe isn't accelerating in its expansion but we are just seeing it that way because even though we are travelling the universe is travelling still. This could be perceived as an acceleration be because of our frame of reference. The expansion is happening which we are in it. If we looked from outside the universe, I wonder if it would look different especially when we look at time dilation and relativity.

My understanding of light is that it self propels. When we look at a dynamo, you rotate a magnet inside a coil of wires creating the movement of current. With light, you have a perpendicular wave of magnetic field to electric field. The magnetic field creates the electric field which created the magnetic field and so on. Does an ether exist inside a vacuum?

Just got a dejavous.

I understand what you are saying. But it is too much for me to deal with. However, if light is a propagation wave through the ether and the ether is flowing towards a star then light will appear to bend. So I don't see a problem. Maybe the Spirit only gave me the most basic interactions. Maybe there is more to it. For example when a magnet passes by a conductive wire and the ether being shot out of the magnet pulses against the wire it might be strong enough to displace the electron cloud and force it down the wire. Electricity can then be a byproduct of that interaction. Doesn't a filament lose mass over time? Is an interruption of the electron cloud the reason a filament loses mass? It would have been nice if the Spirit had supplied all the little nuances but it gave me what it gave me.

Kind of feels like TWMs impression of ether is just force in general.

[Gadianton]

Very informative post. It's not as accurate as you want to project, is all. In order to participate in this adult conversation you must accept the premise that general relativity is flawed, in a big way. If you can't accept that premise, you can't be talking about the same thing as what this conversation is about

I'm willing to accept that general relativity is flawed. But what is general relativity? The descriptions of measuring light in my last post comprise special relativity in a nutshell. I'm willing to accept that general relativity is pure bunk, but we have to be on the same page as to what general relativity is in the first place.

In my last post, I described a kid riding a skateboard and shining a flashlight. The light measures at c on the skateboard. As he approaches me, instead of measuring c+ 10 mph, it still measures c. For a person behind the kid, light doesn't measure at c - 10 mph, it measures at c. The light from the flashlight also measures c at Pluto. If he were throwing a ball, it's totally different. The speed of the ball would be b, b + c, and b - c for the first three situations. Light is totally different. This example = special relativity.

Now suppose the kid instead of moving at 10mph, is slowly increasing his speed. He's accelerating. Now he shines the flashlight. It still measures c at his skateboard, it measures at c in front of him, behind him, on the planet Pluto, and everywhere else. Okay, we're done. That's general relativity. I'm scratching my head at how this could be bunk?

If the aether winds can't be reconciled to explain the measurements of light when the aether is drifting in a simple way, such as approaching my light-measuring instruments directly from the north at 10 mph, then adding in more complicated movement like acceleration isn't going to help.

Some follow up details extraneous to our essential conversation about the aether:

accelerating 1G in a spaceship, physical laws are the same as 1G of planetary gravity. If I have a lab in an elevator in space accelerating at 1g, all my measurements should be the same as if the lab is on a planet with 1g. But I know what an elevator is, it's rope pulling up my little carriage, but even though I have equations that describe gravity perfectly in all those situations where Newton's equations failed (because of all the implications from the speed of light as constant in the examples I gave), what is gravity? Nobody knows. We know that matter tells space how to curve and space tells matter how to move, but we don't know exactly what gravity is. We (not me necessarily) can calculate interactions between complicated systems of masses.

Okay, so somebody says, "I know the answer! Gravity is the aether flowing into the earth and getting annihilated."

Well, we already know enough about measuring light that there is no way to make the motion of aether consistent with "moving into the earth" , so it's out. But perhaps we're redefining what aether is? Let's say were scrapping the aether as in, the medium for light to propagate through as a wave. And now we are saying aether is this mysterious stuff that flows into the earth causing gravity, but it isn't anymore the medium for light to propagate within. That would then change the discussion. But up until now, the DS has not said the aether has a totally new role, and nothing to do with its previous role.

Also, a point of clarification. All mass has gravity. A pea has gravity. Tons of experiments with small objects showing they attract each other just like planets. Is the aether (this potentially new kind of aether) flowing into every pea? Flowing into every rock? And if so, are there equations that refine the descriptions of how peas and rocks pull on each other better than the equations of general relativity?

[Res Ipsa]

Valo,

Using chatGPT was a creative idea to get some baseline concept descriptions going when you had at least three people saying sorta the same thing but not for sure.

However, in your latest attempt, you're going well beyond its ability to generate answers. Remember, the "P" in GPT means "plagiarize".

From wikipedia:



As you can see from the picture, the DS's description of aether "going around the earth" as Michelson-Morley's assumption is false.

But it doesn't really matter. There is no possible analogy to wind that will make it consistent to the experiment's results. That is, light speed is ~300,000,000 mps no matter what angle you measure it from, no matter what frame of reference you measure it from.

Imagine a kid throwing a baseball toward you at 10 miles an hour. Now he gets on his skateboard, goes 10 mph on his board, and throws the ball exactly as hard as he threw it At rest. Relative to the kid, the ball travels 10 mph. Relative to a person the kid is skating toward, it travels 20 mph.

Imagine two kids playing with a jump rope, where one flicks the rope causing a wave to travel to the other kid. the speed of the wave is 10 mph. The kids get on a train car moving toward you at 10 mph; the speed of the wave is now 10 + 10 = 20 mph toward you.

Imagine a kid shining a flashlight at you. The speed of light measures at 300,000,000 mps. Kid gets on skateboard and hurls himself toward you at 10 mph. you measure the speed of light at ~300,000,000 mps + 10 mph??? hold that thought.

Now suppose instead of a kid with a skateboard, image you're on a planet moving with respect to the aether at 10 mph. If light propagates through aether like that jump-rope wave through the rope, then in should be the speed of the aether 10 mph + the speed of light. right?

If there were aether, that's a reasonable expectation. But no matter what direction light is measured from, trying to catch the tailwind or headwind through aether, it's always ~300,000,000 mps. If the kid on the skateboard, hurls toward you at 290,000,000 mps, and turns on his flashlight, it travels ~300,000,000 mps with respect to him, and ~300,000,000 mps with respect to you.

As weird as this all seems, the first thing you'd probably forget about is the idea that light is propagating through aether.

Very informative post. It's not as accurate as you want to project, is all. In order to participate in this adult conversation you must accept the premise that general relativity is flawed, in a big way. If you can't accept that premise, you can't be talking about the same thing as what this conversation is about

I'm gonna come down from my lofty position and speak to you as one frog speaks to another frog one more time...

Your approach to this is wrong. You are taking the perspective that it's a competition that must be won with facts and assertions and good arguments, etc.

Look that's not what's going on here! You don't need to prove anything to me and I'm not trying to prove anything to you.

It is the fact that Michael Sherwin is saying that this is the correct model that blocks you from even having a cogent, rational discussion about a hypothesis.

I expect you to keep staying in your bubble and doing what it is you do here.

Two classic symptoms of scientific crank syndrome:

1. Self aggrandizement;

2. Claiming incompleteness of a theory as a flaw that justifies making crap up. Illustrative example: Newton’s theories are flawed (i.e. don’t account for quantum mechanics) therefore there is no inertia or friction and all motion is caused by God, the prime mover.

[IWMP]

And now we are saying aether is this mysterious stuff that flows into the earth causing gravity, but it isn't anymore the medium for light to propagate within. That would then change the discussion. But up until now, the DS has not said the aether has a totally new role, and nothing to do with its previous role.

Also, a point of clarification. All mass has gravity. A pea has gravity. Tons of experiments with small objects showing they attract each other just like planets. Is the aether (this potentially new kind of aether) flowing into every pea? Flowing into every rock? And if so, are there equations that refine the descriptions of how peas and rocks pull on each other better than the equations of general relativity?

For example when a magnet passes by a conductive wire and the ether being shot out of the magnet pulses against the wire it might be strong enough to displace the electron cloud and force it down the wire.

Aether spiraling into an atom of matter creating an "electron cloud

Electricity is aether being forced down a conductor

When the aether spirals further in it supplies the strong nuclear force

Halo around a star, The light from a star that is behind is bent by the moving aether when it passes the closer star

Pretty sure all of these have something in common. Force.

[IWMP]

The Michaelson Morley experiment shows no change regardless of direction. But something occured to me. If things like time dilation and general relativity in space is different to that of objects travelling on earth then how can we apply the same rules as earth to the Michaelson Morley experiment...

Let's see if I can explain...

Now suppose instead of a kid with a skateboard, image you're on a planet moving with respect to the aether at 10 mph. If light propagates through aether like that jump-rope wave through the rope, then in should be the speed of the aether 10 mph + the speed of light. right?

If there were aether, that's a reasonable expectation. But no matter what direction light is measured from, trying to catch the tailwind or headwind through aether, it's always ~300,000,000 mps. If the kid on the skateboard, hurls toward you at 290,000,000 mps, and turns on his flashlight, it travels ~300,000,000 mps with respect to him, and ~300,000,000 mps with respect to you.

The rule is that there are no "locally preferred frames". Any observations that you can make within any smallish volume of spacetime can be described in any reference frame you want, and the laws of nature will look the same in all of them.

[There's a very good chance I've misread]

The universe isn't growing. It's stretching. The EM fields are being stretched. Does that mean space time is stretching too? Does that mean whatever medium space is outside of any matter, antimatter or known force, is also being stretched. So the "ether" if you will isn't actually moving respective of anything else existing in space in the frame of reference of the light particle that is moving, there is no other movement. Like the light particle is on the "ether" skateboard if you will. Or like when we are in a lift moving, if we didn't have semicircular canals and the loft had no windows and it didn't abruptly change speed, we wouldn't detect any movement regardless of whether the lift is opposing gravity or going with gravity. I had more to say but Oliver just distracted me. It might come back.

If we did the Michaelson Morley experiment in water with physical waves and measured the difference in number of wavelengths what would the result be? We know light doesn't behave in this way. What if we adapted the experiment to measure not the speed of light but to measure photon number or frequency, or intensity?

If the laws of nature look the same in all frames of reference but it is implied that this is not the case on Earth then would that also apply in the case of this discussion?

Is light from stars considered to be the same light as the radiation spreading through the universe? How does light from stars interact with space radiation? Does the atmosphere of the planets affect the results of how the light passing by behaves? Do we get interference between light leaving and object and light passing an object? Is there a change in density surrounding the objects in space that cause light to bend like in classical teachings of optics?

[Valo]

Escape

Well, what can I do?
Well, what can I do?

Okay, yes
We are bored
We're all bored now
But has it ever occurred to you
The process that creates this boredom
That we see in the world now
May very well be
A self-perpetuating
Unconscious form of brainwashing
Created by a world totalitarian government
Based on money
And that all of this
Is much more dangerous than one thinks?
And it's not just a question
Of individual survival
But that somebody who's bored is asleep
And somebody who's asleep will not say no
See, I keep meeting these people I mean, just a few days ago
I met this man that I greatly admire
He's a Swedish physicist
And he told me that he no longer watches television
He doesn't read newspapers
And he doesn't read magazines
He's completely cut them out of his life
Because he really does feel
That we're living
In some kind of Orwellian nightmare now And that everything that you hear now
Contributes to turning you into a robot
When I was at Findhorn
I met this extraordinary English tree expert
Who had devoted his life to saving trees
84 years old and he always travels with a backpack
Because he never knows
Where he's gonna be tomorrow
When I met him at Findhorn and he said to me "Where are you from?"
And I said, "New York."
He said, "Ah, New York.
Yes, that's a very interesting place.
Do you know a lot of New Yorkers who keep talking about the fact that they want to leave but Never do?"
And I said, "Oh, yes."
And he said, "Why do you think they don't leave?"
I gave him different banal theories. He said, "Oh, I don't think it's that way at all."
He said, "I think New York is the new model for the new concentration camp
Where the camp
Has been built
By the inmates themselves
And the inmates are the guards
And they have this pride
In this thing they built.
They built their own prison
And so they exist
In a state of schizophrenia
Where they are both guards and prisoners And as a result
They no longer have
Having been lobotomized
The capacity to leave
The prison they've made
Or to even see it as a prison."
And then he went into his pocket
And he took out a seed for a tree
And he said
"This is a pine tree."
Put in my hand and he said
"Escape before it's too late."

Escape before it's too late
Escape before it's too late
We should get out.
Get out of here
Escape before it's too late
Escape before it's too late
Escape before it's too late
This is the beginning
Of the rest of the future now
Escape before it's too late

See, actually for two or three years now
Chiquita and I have had this very unpleasant feeling
That we really should get out
And we really feel like Jews in Germany in the late '30s
Get out of here
Of course, the problem is where to go
Because it seems quite obvious
That the whole world is going in the same direction
See, I think it's quite possible That the 1960s represented
The last burst of a human being
Before he was extinguished
And that this is the beginning
Of the rest of the future now
That from now on
There'll simply be all these robots walking around
Feeling nothing
Thinking nothing
And there'll be nobody left almost
To remind them
That there once was a species
Called a human being With feelings and thoughts
And that history and memory
Are right now being erased
And, soon, nobody will really remember
That life existed on the planet

Escape before it's too late
Escape before it's too late
We should get out.
Get out of here
Escape before it's too late
Escape before it's too late
Escape before it's too late
This is the beginning
Of the rest of the future now
Escape before it's too late

[Valo]

Good bye, until next time.