Free will and Mormonism

[_Yoda]

Actually, these are the questions...word for word...that they ask for a temple recommend:

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

They are not supposed to ask pointed questions regarding tithing specifying net or gross. The question is, "Do you pay a full tithe?" If you feel you are paying a full tithe, you answer in the affirmative.

There are no specific questions about drinking alcoholic beverages, or tea, or coffee. The question is, "Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" If, in your mind, you do, then answer in the affirmative.

[_hypatia]

Actually, these are the questions...word for word...that they ask for a temple recommend:
...
There are no specific questions about drinking alcoholic beverages, or tea, or coffee. The question is, "Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" If, in your mind, you do, then answer in the affirmative.

Perhaps they are SUPPOSED to adhere to scripted questions. That is not always what happens.

[_Dr. Shades]

Those only occurred within the context of a temple recommend interview, right? If so, he had no choice but to ask those quesions. If you didn't want a recommend, you could've easily avoided all of them.

You are right, of course, however selective you were with my examples.

I was just trying to show that you can easily avoid about half of them.

But the question remains: what is so terrible about drinking a cuppa tea that prohibits a person from entering the temple?

Probably nothing, but it's their clubhouse and their rules.

What do you want a temple recommend for, anyway? Haven't you seen the movie before?

Seems rather disingenuous when considering overweight dumplings who do far more damage to their bodies than my 6oz of Lipton; my neighbor lady who lost her recommend for a time for mowing her back yard in her swimsuit (the bishop was her next door neighbor and spotted her without proper LDS underwear); or say, family members who are threatened with the loss of temple recommends if they continue to associate with family who are outspoken about their views on Mormonism.

Tell them that the movie is always the same, it'll be the same whether they have a recommend or not.

[_Mister Scratch]

This 'inquisition' was an informal meeting where DCP discussed the concerns the member had.

Actually, Nehor, DCP even admitted that the man had been pressured into the discussion by his family members, and, If I recall correctly, his ecclesiastical leader. Furthermore, I think that calling a four hour confrontation in a confined space counts as "informal."

Scratch has read into this that he was coerced into coming, made to feel trapped, and harassed for his beliefs.

Where have I ever said this? Feel free to supply some actual evidence for once.

Scratch creates the SCMC in his own image, complete with an extensive spy network (his little birdies) and records kept on all opponents (Scratch keeps dossiers on people and often brings up quotes and stories from years ago). It's hardly surprising he thinks this is the way others would run their organizations.

This is *precisely* what the LDS Church does, though. CF. Quinn's account of the SCMC in Extensions of Power; heck, a passage in the D&C supports this practice. Many TBMs want to laugh off the conspiratorial facets of Mormonism, but the fact of the matter is that cloak-and-dagger intrigue has always been a part of Mormon culture. Intelligence-gathering, spying, and secret assassinations---of the physical or character variety---have been a part of the Church since practically the beginning. To deny this is just plain wrong, dishonest even.