How Come People Do Not Want To Believe?

[_Quasimodo]

You cannot defy God to prove to you before you will believe. That is a blasphemy. It just will not work that way. We must submit to him and be contrite and humble lest his fury and anger be kindled. Only Zion escapes and has power against the evil day.

Sorry, Night. I don't think this is blasphemy. To blaspheme against a God, one has to first to believe in that God. I can't submit to a God that I don't yet believe in.

I cannot believe in a God who has anger and fury. Anger and fury are are the manifestations of insecurity (if you think about it, you'll see the truth in this). I can't believe in an insecure God.

[_Lost Mystic]

NL,

You say it is blasphemy to demand proof of god before believing. How does that work in "doubting" Thomas's case in the story in the New Testament?

Thomas refused to believe until Jesus showed himself and let Thomas see "proof"...

Thomas was given what he requested.

As for your apocalrock, I believe that you believe. People see what they want to see...

Show a different man the same mountain, the man could come up with a completely different set of vague and interesting drawings as well.

[_Nightlion]

You cannot defy God to prove to you before you will believe. That is a blasphemy. It just will not work that way. We must submit to him and be contrite and humble lest his fury and anger be kindled. Only Zion escapes and has power against the evil day.

Sorry, Night. I don't think this is blasphemy. To blaspheme against a God, one has to first to believe in that God. I can't submit to a God that I don't yet believe in.

I cannot believe in a God who has anger and fury. Anger and fury are are the manifestations of insecurity (if you think about it, you'll see the truth in this). I can't believe in an insecure God.

That's a thoroughly modern perspective I can understand. It is undeniable that God owns his anger and fury. His hot displeasure and fierceness of a wrath cannot be expunged from the scriptural account. And worse his promise of bringing a burning recompense to make a full end of all nations must stand for him to be true.

Given that let's take a look at where and how God ever was nurtured and made to feel secure since he came without father and without mother having neither beginning of days or end of years. From all eternity to all eternity he is the same. And it is telling that he chooses to come into the world and be a little child to suckle the breast of a mother. Not once but according to my understanding each of the three of them come down and repeat this experience every third turn of their eternal round of a course that they tread following one another.

Then again I think this generation is much jaded as to what counts for an offense. Just because God is kind and full of love and patient and perfect even does not mean he fails to take himself and his highness seriously. He comprehends who he truly is with an absolute certainty that we could never fathom. IF he is keeping us alive from moment to moment by the sheer will of his good pleasure and upholding and sustaining the order he made of all that there is, in all its glory, variety and wonderful beauty and magnificence, he is due absolute respect and worshipful awe that humans are as yet incapable of. It's an infinite puzzle that he can stomp out the workmanship of his hands like a tempestuous artist displeased with what he has wrought. But who are we to judge him? We may misunderstand the actual consequences of life and death entirely.

And I think you would have to be a God first yourself with all that experience and understanding of what it takes before you can begin to say how a God ought to be. don't you think?

[_Nightlion]

NL,

You say it is blasphemy to demand proof of god before believing. How does that work in "doubting" Thomas's case in the story in the New Testament?

Thomas refused to believe until Jesus showed himself and let Thomas see "proof"...

Thomas was given what he requested.

As for your apocalrock, I believe that you believe. People see what they want to see...

Show a different man the same mountain, the man could come up with a completely different set of vague and interesting drawings as well.

The case of Thomas is an imprecise rebuttal. Thomas fully believed in God and that Jesus was the Son of God. He was only doubting that Christ had indeed come back to life. Learning is our coming to terms with doubt and that progressively as our view expands and our thoughts heighten. Whomever learned much first doubted more. But the learning is not by sitting unmoved until the knowledge was brought to you on a silver charger.

And as for an incredibly craggy mountain face; you could insist that it must be a dead language anyone can read whichever way they like. Or, it could be as I say. I believe that I have uncovered a self-portraiture of the living God and some of those episodes marking his own intimate involvement with mankind that he esteems worthy of note. And further that God fully intends that it will convince all nations of the salvation of our God.* Everyone but me to date has taken The Apocalrock lightly. I think it unwise. If you can make a better use of it be my guest. I will keep what I have found and tout it before all the world as the precise fulfillment of promises made and visions given to prophets in ages past. I see it as a timing cog on the wheel of destiny that has come into view purposefully for this very moment.

*Of course it will not convince the proud who will be as stubble and the day that is coming shall burn them up leaving them neither root nor branch. Bears repeating.

[_Nightlion]

John 8:45-47
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Do people not WANT to be of God?

What then? They want to be of themselves. Yes, I think that is all.

[_truth dancer]

God is not the author or confusion.
Seems to me, td, that you only want to cancel God out of the equation.

Which God NL?

Which God or Goddess of the thousands from which I can choose am I trying to cancel out of the equation?

The provenance of all truth claims have no comparison to depth of the Christ's proofs. You can toss everything in the mix hoping to create enough confusion to nullify the entire attempt. Rather insincere I think.

What is confusing to me is religion. Pretty much every religion of which I am aware seems man-made. Sorry NL but they really do. Virtually every religion is an exact duplication of the beliefs held by its founder. No offense but including yours.

The scientific age has been mined to blaspheme against God by establishing its METHOD for finding truth as sacrosanct in inviolate. All the educated ones have been given to think that the truths of God must come by direct observation or calculation, when in fact it has always been discovered and proven and added upon in the humble and contrite hearts and minds of those who are LED to it.

Really? It seems you are asserting that you alone have the truth, no? Why are not the many humble and contrite humans finding the same truth as you?

I actually do think that as we move toward enlightenment (or awareness, or depth, or whatever one wants to call it), we see the world, life, universe, existence differently. In other words, I think we can learn and grow and increase our understanding in ways that are not directly accrued from research or science.

Can you demand that God draw you unto the discovery of the truth and all the power and gifts and blessings that his gospel affords as if you come to own this honor while striving for all your earned degrees of this world in academia? Heaven forbid.

I do not demand anything of any otherworldly being; not God, Allah, Zeus, Zoroaster, Athena, angels, devils, etc. etc. Never have, never will.

Back to the OP, I think you miss the point, which is, to the rest of the world, (I mean no offense here at all), you are another of the thousands of men who claim to have the one and only real truth. There are plenty of men who claim prophet-hood, or claim to have some sort of unique connection with God, or claim to have some message directly from God. Ya know?

~td~

[_Nightlion]

What is confusing to me is religion. Pretty much every religion of which I am aware seems man-made. Sorry NL but they really do. Virtually every religion is an exact duplication of the beliefs held by its founder. No offense but including yours.

I wonder what you think you know about my religion? Is it based upon my sightings on The Apocalrock? You may have read me teaching the gospel here. Where did I get that?

Really? It seems you are asserting that you alone have the truth, no? Why are not the many humble and contrite humans finding the same truth as you?

Just exactly how does one like yourself, no offense, know that there are many humble and contrite? I searched forty years with groanings in the Spirit making intersessions for the people and failed to find a single one to date. Semantics I suppose.

I alone have the truth, as far as I am aware, worldwide, to a man (and to a woman), without exception. By having the truth I mean that I know it and have done it. Which having done makes for knowing it all the more perfect. That is because I can cancel out all the perifery of truth claims that are more or less, to the left or to the right and upsidedown against what has been demonstrated.

More than that I see the same kingdom down through the chronicles of time almost obscured within the histories but obvious to me that establish for me an irrefutable provenance of truth.
So, would you yet imagine that my religion is even 1% The Apocalrock?

I am just now comparing for complaining purposes the sightings from off The Aprocalrock that are not believed to be what the obviously are but get ignored, ridiculed, called insane, compared with the ministry of Jesus, where his miracles, teachings, and calling down against his generation was treated the same. For the same reason. Both demonstate, Emanuel, that God is with us. The Apocalrock is God in our face teaching us the gospel by miracle after miracle and profound insights. Its the same as if we found a book that Christ himself had authored. Indeed. Figures that he would write in an medium like stone cut out of the mountain without hands. Kind of like carving the decalogue for Moses. So we have a precedent. Cool

[_Dr. Shades]

He causes by his own great desire all things to live move and have their being, that is love. And he will be honored for all of it. It is for our own good that he so insists. So WHY?

A supreme being would have absolutely no need for honor from his/her/its inferiors.

Yet another symptom of man creating God in man's image and not the other way around.

[_Nightlion]

He causes by his own great desire all things to live move and have their being, that is love. And he will be honored for all of it. It is for our own good that he so insists. So WHY?

A supreme being would have absolutely no need for honor from his/her/its inferiors.

Yet another symptom of man creating God in man's image and not the other way around.

Oh my dear Shades. That is the very dumbest thing ever written on this board.

Have you never loved? What need then did you have to be loved in return. Have any children? Since you are their superior and reign supreme over them, what need have you of their kisses and huggie necks?

The greater the love the MORE need for reciprocity. God holds up all creation by the sheer will of his love. He NEEDS to be worshiped. And is very much justified when denied to lash out against the ungrateful curs. That break in perfection is a threat to the whole. He holds up the entire weight of what gives mass to particles by his will. That is what makes all life possible.
That is what the physicist cannot see.

Mighty greater than God to talk down to him and scold him for needing love.

Sorry, but Stak has unfairly influenced me of late.