How does the Book of Mormon define priestcraft 2?

[_DWhitmer]

Apologies if I mistake you for a Mormon....you do demonstrate many characteristics of a Mormon. However, from my viewpoint, anyone who gives even the slightest credence to the Book of Mormon as God inspired is debating from a suspect foundation.[1] It certainly does not make them qualified to speak from a position of authority [2] on the CofE especially since you add to your lack of knowledge with statements such as "virtually all of orthodox Christianity regulate who can perform baptisms". I repeat, baptism never saved anyone, it is the outward and public demonstration of the saving grace that has already taken place in the repentant sinner.[3] Should Christians submit to it? Certainly, if only because Jesus did who needed no baptism, but like the thief on the cross who was promised paradise without baptism, we are saved by grace.[4]

[1] You're dodging the point, have you read any of the writings of David Whitmer in whole, start to finish? A simple "YES" or "NO" is sufficient.

[2] I referenced my information unlike you asserted "societal knowledge." LOL

[3] Says who, you?? Where is your source reference? Do you own a Bible, if so, which version? Does it contain the Apocrypha? It does not matter how YOU interpret it, it is a commandment, i.e. a REQUIREMENT to get into the Kingdom of God. And it must be performed correctly or it is not valid. Pray tell, where are those simple instructions for how a baptism is to be performed except in the Holy Book of Mormon; and who are you to come in here and treat believers in the only book that confirms the virgin birth, death, and resurrection of our Lord with "suspicion"? Can't you hear the Spirit of God telling you to STOP undermining that holy Nephite record?

[4] Jesus would give the man a tour, but it does not say the man could stay. Have you never read any near death experiences? Sinners and the unbaptized are allowed a tour, but that's all. If you mounted an entire belief system on a false interpretation of what Jesus said to that thief, you're in for a rude awakening. And, I would caution you from falsely instructing others as you don't want to be liable for others not making into God's Kingdom!

[_Albion]

Not quite sure what point I am supposed to be dodging but no, I have not read much on Whitmer...but then I haven't read much on Bernie Madoff either and he is a conman of equal stature. Don't know how you interpret my "societal knowledge" comment but you are certainly placing greater emphasis on it than was my intent which was simply to convey plenty of experience around the CofE and its members. Either way, you are still wrong on your original assertion no matter how you interpret it. I actually own more than one Bible translation and use more than one. At no point have I argued that baptism is not a commandment nor important...my essential point is that it has nothing to do with the saving "born again" experience. When you start using NDEs as some kind of support for your position you lose all credibility and drift into fantasy. Personally I'll stay firmly entrenched in God's grace as the full substance of my salvation. I think we're done on this topic.

[_DWhitmer]

Not quite sure what point I am supposed to be dodging but no, I have not read much on Whitmer...but then I haven't read much on Bernie Madoff either and he is a conman of equal stature. Don't know how you interpret my "societal knowledge" comment but you are certainly placing greater emphasis on it than was my intent which was simply to convey plenty of experience around the CofE and its members. Either way, you are still wrong on your original assertion no matter how you interpret it. I actually own more than one Bible translation and use more than one. At no point have I argued that baptism is not a commandment nor important...my essential point is that it has nothing to do with the saving "born again" experience. When you start using NDEs as some kind of support for your position you lose all credibility and drift into fantasy. Personally I'll stay firmly entrenched in God's grace as the full substance of my salvation. I think we're done on this topic.

You still qualify the simple commandment to be baptized. Obviously you think it a small matter and are trying to deny the simple fact that priestcraft is that a person or church sets themselves up as a light instead of Christ; requiring things not clearly laid down in verse, or claiming to be the controller of baptismal administrations. Since you diminish the command to be baptized to a footnote and who controls that sacrament as a non-issue, I'll wager you likewise disregard a. the baptismal prayer, and b. the baptismal method. Let me guess, you're alright in your societal affiliation of a church baptizing children or infants, is that true?

And for your sly remark regarding the testimony of near death survivors, I will gladly receive truth, as the Bible clearly states from both the law and the testimony of others.