Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

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_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

LittleNipper wrote:I believe God exists because I exist.
Non sequitur, dude. Try again.

LittleNipper wrote:I believe in the God of the Bible because such like You exist. :lol:
The Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together. You must learn the ways of the Force if you are to come with me to Alderaan. :lol:


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_sleepyhead
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _sleepyhead »

maklelan wrote:Yet again you completely overlook the fact that all Christians, Mormons included, believe Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior of humanity. We believe this is an essential doctrine. Don't you?



Hello makelan,

I agree that the above would be an accurate description of how the average individual will interpret the claim of being a Christian. In other words when the claim is being made to being a Christian this is what will be assumed. Therefore I agree it is essential that anyone who claims to be a Christian adhere to the above doctrine. Whether this doctrine is essential for anything else (eternal life) I won't say it is and I won't say that it isn't.

For the question of whether Mormons are Christian or not I'd like to use the above definition. I realize it should be posted on the other thread "no Mormons are not Christian" but that thread drifted off into something else. 1st off I choose not to define myself as a Christian because of the above definition. I don't know what a "son of God" means and I believed he saved us from sin rather than the saved from hell and going to heaven thing.

The problem I see with a claim with regards to whether Mormons are Christian deals with salvation. Most of Christianity sees salvation as one thing i.e. going to heaven. Mormons have 2 halves of salvation, one being going to heaven and the other being exaltation.

It doesn't appear that Mormons look to the Christ for exaltation. Suppose an individual built a fancy club. He then hired a bouncer to stand at the door and only let cool people in. The bouncer and not the owner would now be in control of who could enter. It's the belief of Christianity and Mormonism that God made Jesus the bouncer to decide who could enter heaven. Jesus says as much in the parable of the sheep and goats. With regards to exaltation this requires various temple ceremonies. To take part in these ceremonies depends on approval from the local bishop determining that you are worthy. In other words Jesus is not the gate keeper but the local bishop is. The church also has a ceremony with regards to having your calling and election made sure which requires church approval but I don't know much about how that works. For the above reason with regards to exaltation Jesus is not the savior.

The following is a long forum discussion on getting your calling and election made sure.
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 14&t=22462
May all your naps be joyous occasions.
_maklelan
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _maklelan »

sleepyhead wrote:Hello makelan,

I agree that the above would be an accurate description of how the average individual will interpret the claim of being a Christian. In other words when the claim is being made to being a Christian this is what will be assumed. Therefore I agree it is essential that anyone who claims to be a Christian adhere to the above doctrine. Whether this doctrine is essential for anything else (eternal life) I won't say it is and I won't say that it isn't.


According to Jesus Christ in the New Testament, that's the most important part of his message, and the most important thing anyone can believe. How would this not be essential?

sleepyhead wrote:For the question of whether Mormons are Christian or not I'd like to use the above definition. I realize it should be posted on the other thread "no Mormons are not Christian" but that thread drifted off into something else. 1st off I choose not to define myself as a Christian because of the above definition. I don't know what a "son of God" means and I believed he saved us from sin rather than the saved from hell and going to heaven thing.


What it means, precisely, to be the Son of God is not a part of the question, since there were different ideas in early Christianity.

sleepyhead wrote:The problem I see with a claim with regards to whether Mormons are Christian deals with salvation. Most of Christianity sees salvation as one thing i.e. going to heaven. Mormons have 2 halves of salvation, one being going to heaven and the other being exaltation.

It doesn't appear that Mormons look to the Christ for exaltation.


Completely wrong. Exaltation is all about Christ for Latter-day Saints.

sleepyhead wrote:Suppose an individual built a fancy club. He then hired a bouncer to stand at the door and only let cool people in. The bouncer and not the owner would now be in control of who could enter. It's the belief of Christianity and Mormonism that God made Jesus the bouncer to decide who could enter heaven. Jesus says as much in the parable of the sheep and goats.


Of course, Latter-day Saints also believe that Jesus and God are one in will, with Jesus subordinating his will to God's. This means it's still really God's prerogative, even if Jesus is the proximate cause.

sleepyhead wrote:With regards to exaltation this requires various temple ceremonies. To take part in these ceremonies depends on approval from the local bishop determining that you are worthy. In other words Jesus is not the gate keeper but the local bishop is.


No, one can still have the ordinances and not be accepted by Christ. Temple ceremonies do not overrule Christ.

sleepyhead wrote:The church also has a ceremony with regards to having your calling and election made sure which requires church approval but I don't know much about how that works.


Because the existence of such a ceremony is something you're not really sure about. It's just something you hear about from critics of the church on the internet.

sleepy head wrote:For the above reason with regards to exaltation Jesus is not the savior.


Utter nonsense.

sleepyhead wrote:The following is a long forum discussion on getting your calling and election made sure.
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 14&t=22462


Not interested.
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _LittleNipper »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:I believe God exists because I exist.
Non sequitur, dude. Try again.

LittleNipper wrote:I believe in the God of the Bible because such like You exist. :lol:
The Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together. You must learn the ways of the Force if you are to come with me to Alderaan. :lol:


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett

Yes, and that belief of yours is how old and is revealed where?
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

LittleNipper wrote:
The Erotic Apologist wrote:The Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together. You must learn the ways of the Force if you are to come with me to Alderaan. :lol:

Yes, and that belief of yours is how old and is revealed where?

The ancient faith of the Jedi originated long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away.

You've never seen Star Wars? For shame!


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_The Erotic Apologist
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Posts: 3050
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:07 pm

Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Question for Nipper...

If a vampire bites Jesus and drinks his blood, are the vampire's sins forgiven?


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_sleepyhead
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _sleepyhead »

Hello makelan,

me>>>Whether this doctrine is essential for anything else (eternal life) I won't say it is and I won't say that it isn't.<<<

you>>>According to Jesus Christ in the New Testament, that's the most important part of his message, and the most important thing anyone can believe. How would this not be essential?<<<

I'm not saying it is or isn't. Its not part of the discussion. For this topic it's essential in the sense that it will naturally be assumed that an individual who claims to be a Christian will believe Jesus is the son of God and that he is the saviour.

me>>>It doesn't appear that Mormons look to the Christ for exaltation.<<<

you>>>Completely wrong. Exaltation is all about Christ for Latter-day Saints.<<<

Admittedly I was only active LDS for about a year so I was never really involved in temple stuff. For the sake of discussion let's assume that the teachings, as taught by the LDS church, with regards to how to achieve exaltation are true. To an outsider like me looking in it appears that an individual who wants to receive exaltation involves taking part in various temple ceremonies, which in turn requires being viewed as worthy by the local bishop. Now after we die Jesus might have some say in who becomes exalted and who doesn't but during our time on earth it appears that the LDS church has control of who goes through the temple ceremonies that are required for exaltation.

you>>>No, one can still have the ordinances and not be accepted by Christ. Temple ceremonies do not overrule Christ.<<<

But Christ isn't here therefore he can't give temple recomends. The church decides who gets temple recomends. What happens when we die as far as who gets exalted would naturally be Christ. So in that case after we die he will be our saviour because he will then be the gate keeper. When someone claims to be a Christian he is claiming to be a Christian now as opposed to after he dies and sees that Jesus is the decider of who gets exalted and who doesn't. Again while on earth it appears that the church decides who is worthy to perform the various temple ceremonies.

>>>Because the existence of such a ceremony is something you're not really sure about. It's just something you hear about from critics of the church on the internet.<<<

The website is a pro church website. Apparently members of the church of the first born, (another Mormon sect) are also on the forum. They began the thread on having your calling and election made sure.
May all your naps be joyous occasions.
_maklelan
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _maklelan »

sleepyhead wrote:I'm not saying it is or isn't. Its not part of the discussion.


I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.
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_sleepyhead
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _sleepyhead »

maklelan wrote:
sleepyhead wrote:I'm not saying it is or isn't. Its not part of the discussion.


I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.


Hello maklelan,

you>>>According to Jesus Christ in the New Testament, that's the most important part of his message, and the most important thing anyone can believe. How would this not be essential?<<<

Going back to it then, when you say it is essential, what do you believe it is essential for.
May all your naps be joyous occasions.
_maklelan
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _maklelan »

sleepyhead wrote: Going back to it then, when you say it is essential, what do you believe it is essential for.


What is the topic of this thread?
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