Lesson from Abraham

[_huckelberry]

Hi Nipper, I remember some years ago reading a book by Henry Morris explaining his take on how the flood fit geology. He made reference to a Psalm to fill out the Genesis picture of events. It is long enough ago that I am not completely certain but I believe it is the same Psalm as you quoted above. As I expect you know, Mr Morris was pursuing the idea that the flood was not just large amounts of water covering everything but was a shattering crushing event where the very crust of the earth was ground into sands and particles which upon settling formed the many layers of sedimentary rocks found in many places in the world. I imagine the the portion of the Psalm about smoke etc could be images of volcanic action accompaning the flood. Though I think the connection to the flood in the Psalm is at best very uncertain and connection to volcanic action is also quite speculative I do not find it difficult to believe that large volcanic action would follow a breaking up and rebuilding of the earths crust.

There is a simple time problem which arises with picturing the Columbia basalts as happening in the past 10000 years. After they were laid down they have been broken and bucked so some portion are at high elevation. These areas have extensive canyons carved by small streams. There is one at least I am intimately familiar with over a 50 year period. I have explored it enough to know that side branches which are tiny brooks with water only in spring runoff have carved deep side canyons. It should be pointed out that basalt or lava does not go through a stage when it is easily washed away. It is either too hot for water to stay on or it is hard as rock. It takes a long time for water to dig through solid rock and form such canyons. I know by observation that this is not happening faster that an inch every fifty years. (much slower to be realistic)
If one allows a rate of an inch every fifty years then it takes 600 years for a foot. The canyon is two thousand plus feet deep so is over a million years old as a most conservative measurement.

[Guest]

"It would present true, unified answers to the difficult questions of life."
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such as.
should we hold african slaves?
should we return slaves to their masters
should we fight a civil war to hold the union together or to free slaves?
Is it ok to break away from the authority of the king?
Do kings rule by divine right?
How do you decide which witches must be killed?
How do you decide how to treat the civil rights of people of alien religious beliefs?
How do you decide what to do with people who teach error or break away from the established authorities?
what happens to my atheist uncle who committed suicide
How can I see life after death as happy without that uncle should be be gone?
what about family members closer to me who are not Christian believers.?
How can humanity ever recover from the horror of so many loved ones being sent to hell? lobotomy?
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How about a simple question. How can you tell when the Bible is speaking with a literal use of words and when does it use other forms a communication? I am sure it is plain and literal as can be sometimes, but othertimes....
"Then the earth quaked and trembled.
The foundations of the heavens shook;
they quaked because of his anger.
Smoke poured from his nostrils;
fierce flames leaped from his mouth.
Glowing coals blazed forth from him.
He opened the heavens and came down;
dark storm clouds were beneath his feet.
Mounted on a mighty angelic being, he flew,"

Most people would read this and much of the rest of the poem as being something far away from what is called literal. Can a person be sure however? A person could decide to read it as completely literal if they want to.

What you fail to mention is that there is still Slavery among Black Africans to this very day. Well over 1/2 million. This doesn't make Slavery right by any means, but it is revealing that Slavery still exists among blacks in many of their native countries. David wrote songs (that is what a Psalm is). Is doesn't seem strange to me that David felt a certain affinity with Noah and the Holy Spirit allowed David to visualize or imagine the realities Noah faced. Obviously, God allowed David's songs into His Holy Word. It does seem likely that God draws comparisons when it suit His purpose.

[_huckelberry]

"It would present true, unified answers to the difficult questions of life."
//////////////

such as.
should we hold african slaves?
should we return slaves to their masters
should we fight a civil war to hold the union together or to free slaves?

What you fail to mention is that there is still Slavery among Black Africans to this very day. Well over 1/2 million. This doesn't make Slavery right by any means, but it is revealing that Slavery still exists among blacks in many of their native countries. David wrote songs (that is what a Psalm is). Is doesn't seem strange to me that David felt a certain affinity with Noah and the Holy Spirit allowed David to visualize of imagine the realities Noah faced. Obviously, God allowed David's songs into His Holy Word. It does seem likely that God draws comparisons when it suit His purpose.

Nipper I do not know what you mean by" it is revealing that Slavery still exists among Blacks in their native countries" It might help to say what is reveled.

I think you may be mistaking my intention to be to criticize the Bible. That is not my intention at all. I think in the Bible God pushes us to ask questions and do serious thought. It does not supply answers to all questions, evens important questions like slavery. I think that the Bible clearly pushes people to consider and realize the immorality of slavery. The difficulty with this strategy God is using in the Bible is that people can end up disagreeing about important question like slavery and those disagreements,even between believing Christians studying the Bible, can lead to terrible conflict like the American civil war. I do not believe this is a failure of the Bible but something that underlines the necessity for us all to think as well as we can.

I think the Bible is precious because it creates questions not because it is a answer book. I hope that does not sound like I am ignoring inspiration. I see the Bible as not asking questions in the dark but in the light Gods lead. The Bible requires us to think with both prayer and all our heart mind and strength.

[_LittleNipper]

What you fail to mention is that there is still Slavery among Black Africans to this very day. Well over 1/2 million. This doesn't make Slavery right by any means, but it is revealing that Slavery still exists among blacks in many of their native countries. David wrote songs (that is what a Psalm is). Is doesn't seem strange to me that David felt a certain affinity with Noah and the Holy Spirit allowed David to visualize or imagine the realities Noah faced. Obviously, God allowed David's songs into His Holy Word. It does seem likely that God draws comparisons when it suit His purpose.

Nipper I do not know what you mean by" it is revealing that Slavery still exists among Blacks in their native countries" It might help to say what is reveled.

I think you may be mistaking my intention to be to criticize the Bible. That is not my intention at all. I think in the Bible God pushes us to ask questions and do serious thought. It does not supply answers to all questions, evens important questions like slavery. I think that the Bible clearly pushes people to consider and realize the immorality of slavery. The difficulty with this strategy God is using in the Bible is that people can end up disagreeing about important question like slavery and those disagreements,even between believing Christians studying the Bible, can lead to terrible conflict like the American civil war. I do not believe this is a failure of the Bible but something that underlines the necessity for us all to think as well as we can.

I think the Bible is precious because it creates questions not because it is a answer book. I hope that does not sound like I am ignoring inspiration. I see the Bible as not asking questions in the dark but in the light Gods lead. The Bible requires us to think with both prayer and all our heart mind and strength.

And because of the Civil War, the South eventually became the Bible Belt and is now rather anti-racial. The National Association of Colored People is located in the North and is still all about "Color." Ebony is a rather good magazine though. And I do agree with you. God uses the Bible to get man to think. So, why has it been removed from places of education? And likely, this is the very reason, "Johnny" doesn't learn to think rationally, or want to read, lacks motivation, and gets his feelings hurt over disagreements............ So, I do have to agree with you on this point --- I think...