33 years with new questions

[Physics Guy]

As I understand the history, Smith didn't really think he was going to be killed until the mob was there at his cell door, at which point it was obviously too late to try to save himself by recanting anything—it was too late for any words to do anything. Smith may have made some grandiose statements about going like a lamb to be slaughtered and being killed in cold blood, but at least from some other closely contemporary statements mentioned in the Wikipedia page, he seems to have thought that he would either beat the treason charge in court or else be rescued by his Nauvoo Legion.

Or at least, he seems to have had some confidence that he would either beat the rap or be rescued. He was clearly taking a risk, in returning to Illinois for arrest, instead of just hiding out further west. I don't think he needed the kind of motivation it would have taken to face certain death, because I think he was far from certain that he was facing death, but he surely did need enough motivation to take a serious risk. What could that motivation have been, if it wasn't a sincere conviction that he was God's chosen Prophet and only doing God's will?

I don't know, but it seems to me that the whole polygamy problem may not have been as much less of a deal in Smith's day, in comparison to the disgust it raises now, as Mormon apologists try to make us believe. On the contrary, I think that the kind of serial sexual predation that Smith practiced was obvious grounds for lynching in his time and place, and that Smith must have been dreadfully anxious for months to conceal his multiple affairs, as well as the secret religious doctrine by which he justified them. So he took desperate measures when the Nauvoo Expositor published his crimes, but this only made things worse. This was the background to Smith's arrest, which didn't just come out of the blue as a sudden persecution for no reason. It was all a problem of Smith's own making, but it had been building and now it was all blowing up and coming out.

Even though it all happened fast, I expect that Smith didn't need long to see that if he just ran off as a fugitive then his days as a Prophet were over. So I reckon he was prepared to take even a fairly big risk if it gave him a chance of emerging on top. He was probably hoping that his flock would rally to save him and that, having done that, they would then be committed enough to him to go west with him. Smith may not have had the full-blown idea of migrating to Utah and founding Salt Lake City, but the notion of "lighting out for the Territory" to escape oppressive circumstances was a widespread meme in the time. It might even have worked, if Smith's hold over his Legion had been stronger than it proved to be in the end.

[NeuesLicht83]

Thank you, all! This has been really helpful and given me a lot to reflect on.

[yellowstone123]

I don't think those in Nauvoo could say a public nuisance outweighed freedom of the press. Nauvoo was allowed to obtain a charter as long as they passed no laws that violated the laws of the State of Illinois or of the United States. Abraham Lincoln voted to approve the charter.

[Moksha]

I don't think those in Nauvoo could say a public nuisance outweighed freedom of the press. Nauvoo was allowed to obtain a charter as long as they passed no laws that violated the laws of the State of Illinois or of the United States. Abraham Lincoln voted to approve the charter.

What about the Mormonic/Islamic right of Grand Ayatollahs and town councils to declare jihads against printing presses? The privilege of bearing secret harems was at stake, let alone the extra 72 virgins in Paradise, Nevada.

[yellowstone123]

I don't think those in Nauvoo could say a public nuisance outweighed freedom of the press. Nauvoo was allowed to obtain a charter as long as they passed no laws that violated the laws of the State of Illinois or of the United States. Abraham Lincoln voted to approve the charter.

What about the Mormonic/Islamic right of Grand Ayatollahs and town councils to declare jihads against printing presses? The privilege of bearing secret harems was at stake, let alone the extra 72 virgins in Paradise, Nevada.

A free press has always been an important part of this nation. It fuels debate and progress. I'll keep posting this link until it starts to sink in...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Parish_Lovejoy

[Moksha]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Parish_Lovejoy

Lovejoy may have been martyred over the abolition of slavery, but Joseph was martyred over the cause of keeping Mormon polygamy a deep dark sacred secret lest his followers find out. The twin vestiges of barbarism had its victims.

Once they were in Deseret (Utah) the Saints could openly embrace this barbarism. Spring it on those newly trafficked European girls with a one-way ticket!

[bill4long]

Spring it on those newly trafficked European girls with a one-way ticket!

When the girls got there they realized it was virtual slavery. Pure evil.

[yellowstone123]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Parish_Lovejoy

Lovejoy may have been martyred over the abolition of slavery, but Joseph was martyred over the cause of keeping Mormon polygamy a deep dark sacred secret lest his followers find out. The twin vestiges of barbarism had its victims.

Once they were in Deseret (Utah) the Saints could openly embrace this barbarism. Spring it on those newly trafficked European girls with a one-way ticket!

I agree as some could argue that Mormons in 19th century were far less patriotic than the Protestants of the 19th century. I believe Protestants sailed here from the old world to establish the right to practice their religion. I'm not to sure if they practiced charity with other religions or people.

The Mormon's really needed prophetic insight as Manifest destiny was a big topic when Joseph Smith Jr. was killed but the community didn't get any real direction the new leadership.

The Mormons went west, the United States engaged in warfare, the Manifest destiny plan began to grow, Mexico became a pain, the United State Army occupied Mexico City for six months, peace between the two nations was establish, Utah became a territory and now federal judges could take jurisdiction over crimes committed in the new territory which included prosecution for bigamy or polygamy.

[Valo]

Hi All, I’m new and after watching RFM and John, I’m ready to engage and get some real answers. I’m hoping to get some real perspective from those of you that have been on this path for true understanding in life. I thought I would list some of my biggest thoughts recently…

1. President Nelson and others seem genuine, and at such an advanced age, what real benefit do these men receive if it’s not real?

2. Has there been work done to see if there are similarities between the Book of Mormon wars and the American Revolutionary War? Wondering if Joseph Smith got ideas from those battles.

3. Why am I more fearful of missing out of eternal blessings if I question things or depart in any way?

4. Why would Joseph Smith (like Elder Holland once mentioned) go to his grave over this if it wasn’t real? What was the real benefit he received? He suffered a lot.

Really appreciate your thoughts, perspective, or links to interviews and videos that can help without extra bias.

You are fearful because of brainwashing, indoctrination, and ritual abuse. You have been trained, hypnotized really, through the use of various psychological manipulation tactics so that you get a sense of fear and resistance to the idea of questioning authority. It's been put into you. The fear of questioning is not natural. So those ideas are placed deep into your subconscious so that any time you might think, hey, maybe these guys are just people and maybe it's possible that nagging feeling that something isn't right is actually correct, you get that panic feeling like you are committing a horrible sin and you must be unfaithful and weak for questioning.

Those thoughts saying that are 100 percent complete utter BS.