The Root

[Shulem]

"Who was the first father"

According to the Bible:

The first father was the Father who is God, and his God and Father is Himself.

[Shulem]

Infinite regress is nonsense.

The church today refuses to take accountability in discussing the matter and simply chalks it up to divine mystery which can't be explained but will be revealed in the afterlife. But there is no answer to this infinite dilemma, not now and not in the afterlife. It's simply a matter of that which is not possible because the infinite cannot be accounted for! Mormons today have their heads in the sand. They refuse to own up and admit their founding prophet did not understand the basic principle of infinity and how the doctrine of Fathers going backward forever is an impossibility, even for God! It is the ultimate proof that Joseph Smith's inspiration was fatally flawed and may be safely rejected without further argument.

[bill4long]

So, in retrospect, the teaching of Christ through what is considered an authentic teaching of St John shows that the Father and Son are in divinity as One God manifested as two Persons. Never mind Smith's teachings of the Father having a Father because the Bible never said that! Smith misinterpreted the concept of a Trinitarian God in thinking that because Christ has a God then so also does the Father. But we learn that not only did Christ have a God but he was also God, just as his Father is God and also has a God which is HIMSELF!

I don't agree with that (not that it matters, because I'm not a New Testament believer and have no dog in the fight).

John (and Paul) clearly express the Greek Logo Doctrine. (See Philo of Alexandria.)

If you want to know what my views are, Dan McClellin comes very close:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpq4bdisHRU

[Shulem]

I don't agree with that (not that it matters, because I'm not a New Testament believer and have no dog in the fight).

I'm not a New Testament believer either so it really doesn't matter and I have nothing really to prove about it other than admit that people have believed in God & Christ for the past 2,000 years and the Trinity seems to be the general concept by which they believe. Mormonism takes things to a whole new level which is rejected by mainstream Christians and the time/honored traditions that have been passed down for millennia.

So, it's all good my friend. Woof!

Pour yourself a tall drink of something and have a good laugh on me!

[bill4long]

Pour yourself a tall drink of something and have a good laugh on me!

Cheers!

[Shulem]

Loony infinite regress.
"Who is the first father?"

Consider a patriarchal ancestral line of regression beginning with our Heavenly Father and continue backward and how far does it go? Father having a Father and so on whereby a trillion man pedigree chart is just the beginning because trillions more are on the endless horizon.

No wonder the Mormons refuse to address this issue and talk about it. Not even MG! Can you blame them?

Hi Dads!





Forever on to infinity........................

[Shulem]

Lorenzo Snow, the Church’s fifth President, coined a well-known couplet: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Little has been revealed about the first half of this couplet, and consequently little is taught.

You would think the first half is as important as the *second half* seeing linear eternity works both ways and yet modern Mormons refuse to talk about it. The essay neglects to explain or mention how Heavenly Father must have looked to his Father and how his Father must have also looked to his Father. The Church completely dodges the issue insomuch as 100% of past linear eternity is overlooked and not taken into consideration but reduced to little or actually, nothing. But the past is no smaller than the future and yet the Mormons try and hide it because they know it proves their doctrine false!

Expressing that truth, Eliza R. Snow asked, “In the heav’ns are parents single?” and answered with a resounding no: “Truth eternal / Tells me I’ve a mother there.”

Mormons teach Heavenly Father has at least one wife. That is doctrine. So where did his lovely wife come from? Who bore her? Who is her mother and who is her father? Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother makes for two people which according to Mormon doctrine this affords them their own parents. And so on and so on. But the Mormons won't talk about it.

Why?

Because they are stuck in a lie and refuse to confess their false theology.

[bill4long]

Lorenzo Snow, the Church’s fifth President, coined a well-known couplet: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Little has been revealed about the first half of this couplet, and consequently little is taught.

Because they are stuck in a lie and refuse to confess their false theology.

Despite what the Gospel Topic Essay says, Joe was pretty clear about the matter in the King Follet sermon.

...it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.

Joe said it was "simple" and "necessary." A "first principle" even. His explanation seems simple enough to me and to the Mormon kids I knew.

[Shulem]

Wow, that's brilliant deduction!

I love it, please allow me (pinky-boy) to add some pink ink for good measure!

Despite what the Gospel Topic Essay says, Joe was pretty clear about the matter in the King Follet sermon.

...it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.

Joe said it was "simple" and "necessary." A "first principle" even. His explanation seems simple enough to me and to the Mormon kids I knew.

"Simple" & "First principle":

• "how He came to be so"
• "how God came to be God"
• "He was once a man"
• "the same as all gods have done before you"

That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about.

Tell us what you do know and quit lying for the church.

[bill4long]

That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about.

Gordo was a skillful B.S. artist. Not much apostolic discernment, however. Mark Hoffman bamboozled the snot out of him and the others.