The facade of tolerance and wiggling ears

[_Jason Bourne]

I loved his talk and found him very genuine and warm though I missed the comments on apostates. Enlighten us.

I didn't say he commented on them. His 'facade of tolerance' was definitely a message for them though.

Sorry man

You lost me

[_Blixa]

I loved his talk and found him very genuine and warm though I missed the comments on apostates. Enlighten us.

I didn't say he commented on them. His 'facade of tolerance' was definitely a message for them though.

Sorry man

You lost me

"...his 'facade of tolerance'..."

Although the use of single quotes is kind of confusing, going by what I know of the English language this means that Monson has only a facade of tolerance for apostates; i.e., a false and not genuine tolerance for them.

[_Tarski]

I loved his talk and found him very genuine and warm though I missed the comments on apostates. Enlighten us.

I didn't say he commented on them. His 'facade of tolerance' was definitely a message for them though.

Sorry man

You lost me

"...his 'facade of tolerance'..."

Although the use of single quotes is kind of confusing, going by what I know of the English language this means that Monson has only a facade of tolerance for apostates; I.e., a false and not genuine tolerance for them.

Yes, and quite astonishingly, BCSpace seems to think that this facade is so thin that his actual distain is apparent and is the real message of his talk (nevermind the words he spoke)!!!!!!!

WTF??????

[_cinepro]

Here's the quote on tolerance. It seems to be more focused on young men being tricked into sin by a desire to appear "tolerant" than any reference to apostates.

My young friends, be strong. The philosophies of men surround us. The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness, and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that. The character of transgression remains the same. If your so-called friends urge you to do anything you know to be wrong, you be the one to make a stand for right, even if you stand alone. Have the moral courage to be a light for others to follow. There is no friendship more valuable than your own clear conscience, your own moral cleanliness—and what a glorious feeling it is to know that you stand in your appointed place clean and with the confidence that you are worthy to do so.

http://LDS.org/conference/talk/display/ ... 23,00.html

I may not know exactly what has led to my doubts and criticisms of the Church, but I can guarantee you that "a mask of tolerance" never had anything to do with it.

[_Dr. Shades]

Thanks to Cinepro, we now have the actual Monson quote:

My young friends, be strong. The philosophies of men surround us. The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness, and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that. The character of transgression remains the same. If your so-called friends urge you to do anything you know to be wrong, you be the one to make a stand for right, even if you stand alone. Have the moral courage to be a light for others to follow. There is no friendship more valuable than your own clear conscience, your own moral cleanliness—and what a glorious feeling it is to know that you stand in your appointed place clean and with the confidence that you are worthy to do so.

But recall that bcspace interpreted it thusly:

I thought Monson was magnificent and had some (not so?) subtle messages for dissenters and apostates.

How bcspace could possibly infer anything at all related to dissension and apostasy is quite mind-boggling.

[_moksha]

Way to give a jolt of GA horseplay to a young boy:

During the general session, I observed a young boy sitting with his family on the front row of the stake center. I was seated on the stand. As the meeting progressed, I began to notice that if I crossed one leg over the other, the young boy would do the same thing. If I reversed the motion and crossed the other leg, he would follow suit. I would put my hands in my lap, and he would do the same. I rested my chin in my hand, and he also did so. Whatever I did, he would imitate my actions. This continued until the time approached for me to address the congregation. I decided to put him to the test. I looked squarely at him, certain I had his attention, and then I wiggled my ears. He made a vain attempt to do the same, but I had him! He just couldn't quite get his ears to wiggle. He turned to his father, who was sitting next to him, and whispered something to him. He pointed to his ears and then to me. As his father looked in my direction, obviously to see my ears wiggle, I sat solemnly with my arms folded, not moving a muscle. The father glanced back skeptically at his son, who looked slightly defeated.

[_Blixa]

Here's the quote on tolerance. It seems to be more focused on young men being tricked into sin by a desire to appear "tolerant" than any reference to apostates.

My young friends, be strong. The philosophies of men surround us. The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness, and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that. The character of transgression remains the same. If your so-called friends urge you to do anything you know to be wrong, you be the one to make a stand for right, even if you stand alone. Have the moral courage to be a light for others to follow. There is no friendship more valuable than your own clear conscience, your own moral cleanliness—and what a glorious feeling it is to know that you stand in your appointed place clean and with the confidence that you are worthy to do so.

http://LDS.org/conference/talk/display/ ... 23,00.html

I may not know exactly what has led to my doubts and criticisms of the Church, but I can guarantee you that "a mask of tolerance" never had anything to do with it.

Thanks cinepro. That clears up the grammatical confusion from bcspace's remark: bcspace meant monson's phrase, "the facade of tolerance," not monson's own facade of tolerance as his sentence would be normally construed.

Also interesting to see is the actual phrasing, "mask of tolerance," and the original context.

[_ludwigm]

Pres. Monson is alaways teaching through parables. Those life stories he shares all contain powerful gospel meassages.

"Parables don't lie, but liars will parable." - Lip-King.

(London's literary models were Kipling, Stevenson. He was also influenced by the theories of Darwin, Spencer, Marx, and Nietzsche. In his later years London read the works of Carl Jung. His influence has been considerable on such writers as Ernest Hemingway, Jack Kerouac, and Robert Ruark. Upton Sinclair has often been considered London's literary successor.)

[_Pa Pa]

I'm suprised no one has commented on this yet though I understand that many here would not be found listening to or watching Priesthood session anyway. I thought Monson was magnificent and had some (not so?) subtle messages for dissenters and apostates.

I enjoyed his talk...the ear thing kind of creeped me out though.

[_Canucklehead]

Here's the quote on tolerance. It seems to be more focused on young men being tricked into sin by a desire to appear "tolerant" than any reference to apostates.

My young friends, be strong. The philosophies of men surround us. The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness, and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that. The character of transgression remains the same. If your so-called friends urge you to do anything you know to be wrong, you be the one to make a stand for right, even if you stand alone. Have the moral courage to be a light for others to follow. There is no friendship more valuable than your own clear conscience, your own moral cleanliness—and what a glorious feeling it is to know that you stand in your appointed place clean and with the confidence that you are worthy to do so.

http://LDS.org/conference/talk/display/ ... 23,00.html

I may not know exactly what has led to my doubts and criticisms of the Church, but I can guarantee you that "a mask of tolerance" never had anything to do with it.

What do these statements by Monson even mean??

"The philosophies of men surround us." Yes, just like the "philosophies of men" emanated from Brigham Young when he was at the pulpit declaring that Adam is our god. How could anyone even tell the difference between a "philosophy of man" and a "philosophy of God"? Are all "philosophies of men" equally deleterious? Is it ok to take seriously Hobbes but not Plato? Rousseau but not Nietzsche? What an empty, meaningless phrase: "the philosophies of men".

"The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance." Again, what the hell does this mean?! Which sins wear this mask? All of them? Some of them? What kind of tolerance are they disguising themselves with? Tolerance for cultures that are different than our own? Tolerance for family members with whom we disagree on religious principles? Tolerance for minority rights? Tolerance for intolerance? How exactly would any of these kinds of tolerance lead directly to sin in our own lives? What an absolutely inane and shallow statement.

Is this what prophets do nowadays? Spout meaningless generalities and leave it to individuals to figure out what it could possible mean? How courageous!! No wonder you get people like BCSpace who hear this statement and somehow read some kind of message for apostates into it. These statements could literally mean anything to anyone who cared to construct a particular interpretation.