Free will and Mormonism

[_haleray]

I agree that Free Agency comes with a price. At church, we talked about how a kite has a string holding it down, what would happen if you cut the string. Would the kite be ‘free’ to fly as high as it wants, or would it come crashing down? I think we get confused about Free Agency. Yes, we can choose God’s way, or Satan’s way, but in this choice, there are consequences. If we sin, we will move away from God, if we do what God wants, then we move closer to Him.
I don’t have kids, but I couldn’t even think of disowning one of my kids. In the scriptures, it says that we should forgive everyone and let God punish. Does that mean that we should just do whatever someone says? For example, one of your kids asks money and he or she has a drug problem, should you enable his or her drug problem? NO!!!
You can love someone but not give in to his or her knowledge that you’ll do anything for him or her. Some, if not, most people, needs what is called ‘tough love’. It is where you are tough with someone that you love when they take advantage of you otherwise.

[_harmony]

And as Scratch will point out we seem to have a modern day version of the Inquisition in our SCMC.

This is like equating the Nazi genocide to getting baptized.

How many people, and can you name them, were subject to an SCMC inquisition?

rpcman.

[_The Nehor]

And as Scratch will point out we seem to have a modern day version of the Inquisition in our SCMC.

This is like equating the Nazi genocide to getting baptized.

How many people, and can you name them, were subject to an SCMC inquisition?

It is frequently difficult to name them, since they are often unaware that the SCMC has been involved. The case I am most familiar with involves DCP. The Good Professor was called upon to act as an "agent" (his word) for the SCMC, and in doing so, he was advised by the Committee's secretary to keep things very hush-hush. So, probably a great many folks who are hauled into Church courts have been subject to "an SCMC inquisition," but most, if not all, of them will never know it. The relevant "intel" and surveillance information gets passed along to the appropriate ecclesiastical leader, who then takes an "oath" of silence. Quite an ingenious---not to mention diabolical---system, isn't it?

This 'inquisition' was an informal meeting where DCP discussed the concerns the member had. Scratch has read into this that he was coerced into coming, made to feel trapped, and harassed for his beliefs. Scratch creates the SCMC in his own image, complete with an extensive spy network (his little birdies) and records kept on all opponents (Scratch keeps dossiers on people and often brings up quotes and stories from years ago). It's hardly surprising he thinks this is the way others would run their organizations.

[_ludwigm]

My english may be weak.

Please explain me the difference between "free will" and "free agency"!
Is there difference at all?

[_The Nehor]

My english may be weak.

Please explain me the difference between "free will" and "free agency"!
Is there difference at all?

There really isn't one that I'm aware of. LDS favor the term 'agency' because it comes from our scriptures though 'free agency' is also popular.

[_hypatia]

Free agency is a concept highly extolled by the morg as a gift we all have and yet it is the first thing they take away from an individual as they micromanage our lives.

[_The Nehor]

Free agency is a concept highly extolled by the morg as a gift we all have and yet it is the first thing they take away from an individual as they micromanage our lives.

A choice to obey and a choice not to obey is still a choice.

Also, the term micromanage is hardly applicable. I doubt your Bishop was calling you every day with a schedule.

[_hypatia]

Free agency is a concept highly extolled by the morg as a gift we all have and yet it is the first thing they take away from an individual as they micromanage our lives.

A choice to obey and a choice not to obey is still a choice.

Also, the term micromanage is hardly applicable. I doubt your Bishop was calling you every day with a schedule.

I consider a bishop wanting to know....

-details of my social (that includes sexual events) life, even as a married person that are none of his business
-whether I imbibe wine with a fine dinner or holiday (or any other alcoholic beverage)
-drink caffeinated coffees and teas (and depending on the bishop other caffeinated drinks)
-if I pay a full and honest tithe (even splitting hairs as to "gross" or "net" income)
-telling me he was "inspired" for me to fill a position, never mind what I think about it
-asking my husband FIRST what he thought about me being "called" to said "inspired" position
-not only do I have to worry about sins of commission--I have to guiltily contemplate sins of omission
-how many more can I and others list?

...indeed micromanaging my (---are you ready???) DAILY life. Don't tell me I can obey or not. True free agency is the ability to make simple decisions on my own and not the LDS Church telling me that free agency is obeying (or not) what THEY tell me I should do.

Obviously there are those who feel better about being told not just to jump, but how high to jump. I don't, thank you very much.

I don't need guilt-saturated rules keeping my psyche hostage impressed by a middle man in my path to my God.

[_Dr. Shades]

I consider a bishop wanting to know....

-details of my social (that includes sexual events) life, even as a married person that are none of his business
-whether I imbibe wine with a fine dinner or holiday (or any other alcoholic beverage)
-drink caffeinated coffees and teas (and depending on the bishop other caffeinated drinks)
-if I pay a full and honest tithe (even splitting hairs as to "gross" or "net" income)

Those only occurred within the context of a temple recommend interview, right? If so, he had no choice but to ask those quesions. If you didn't want a recommend, you could've easily avoided all of them.

[_hypatia]

Those only occurred within the context of a temple recommend interview, right? If so, he had no choice but to ask those quesions. If you didn't want a recommend, you could've easily avoided all of them.

You are right, of course, however selective you were with my examples. But the question remains: what is so terrible about drinking a cuppa tea that prohibits a person from entering the temple? Seems rather disingenuous when considering overweight dumplings who do far more damage to their bodies than my 6oz of Lipton; my neighbor lady who lost her recommend for a time for mowing her back yard in her swimsuit (the bishop was her next door neighbor and spotted her without proper LDS underwear); or say, family members who are threatened with the loss of temple recommends if they continue to associate with family who are outspoken about their views on Mormonism.

Micromanage is absolutely the perfect word, in my opinion.