Being physically, mentally and spiritually prepared

[_Wisdom Seeker]

But.. Do we not regard the rites of passages of young teen age Muslims in preperation of Jihad a terrible thing?

Each religion, cult or whatever that claims they have these spiritual rites of passages for the benefit of their young followers must be able to accept the criticism that these spiritual rites of passages can and do also indoctrinate the young minds who participate in them.

[_Nevo]

Each religion, cult or whatever that claims they have these spiritual rites of passages for the benefit of their young followers must be able to accept the criticism that these spiritual rites of passages can and do also indoctrinate the young minds who participate in them.

Being ritually incorporated into a community and being indoctrinated aren't really the same thing. If it's indoctrination that bothers you, then criticize that.

LDS children are not indoctrinated by being baptized. They're indoctrinated long before that, at home and at church, through prayers, scripture study, Primary songs and lessons, etc.

[_moksha]

The ideal age is when the psychosocial stage for displaying Generativity kicks into gear. That occurs if one has successfully passed the stage for understanding the duality of the banana.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Nevo, some good thinking. . . I'll be in this...

[/quote]
Baptism at age 8, or Aaronic priesthood conferral at age 12, are rites of passage. Are children emotionally and spiritually mature enough to appreciate all of the implications of such acts? Most probably aren't. Does that matter? I don't think so.
Seems to me, these rites-of-passage are human fabrications designed to strengthen the fabric of the initiating institution. As well to ego-build the recipient as someone special by induction into their special group. While this is deception, and not of "God", advantages might be forth coming. Such as having access (privilege) to people, places and things denied others. Undemocratic discrimination and prejudicial.
These are initiations. According to Mircea Eliade, one of the purposes of initiations is "to make [the initiate] open to spiritual values." So rather than preventing "an individual awakening or spiritual birth," they actually facilitate such experiences. See above... Education is what really awakens individuals

The attendant spiritual blessings (and obligations) are received by covenant. When the person accepts the terms of the covenant associated with being a member of the Church or holding the priesthood—which may or may not coincide with the receipt of the ordinance itself—then those blessings are "unlocked." Applied intelligence is the key that opens "blessings"... Does this mean church members are denied "blessings" because they partook of rituals and rites that are of man? Not at all. IF/WHEN they apply intelligence, "blessings" cannot be withheld. From them nor any other person who applies intelligence -- said to be the, "Glory of "God"". No one who invokes stupidity and ignorance, church member or not, is a candidate for many blessings... Universal ("God"s") laws Trump human rules, policies, edicts and dictates hands-down. Unfortunately our human tendency is to hang on to past-practice in denial of the thought that "we" might be wrong.
LDSism has prospered being wrong theologically, simply because they have been correct reading human proclivities :-) [/quote]

"Wolves in sheep's clothing?"
Roger M.

[_Wisdom Seeker]

Are rites of passage for children just taking advantage of immaturity for the cause of the family belief?

What if that rite of passage included extremist ideals as preparing a young soldier for jihad?

[_Wisdom Seeker]

Being ritually incorporated into a community happens probably to evey child, even to the free-thinking hippies who thought they were raising their children differently.

[_karl61]

Wisdom Seeker wrote:

"My original intent of my post was to some how find out why baptism or receiving priesthood is so closely tied to a person's age and not to their true spiritual and emotional maturity. I just have a hard time believing that everyone at age eight is fully aware of what right and wrong is. And I also have a hard time believing that a vow of a Nazarite or even the pure devotion that one can have for their belief can be made by children and often young adults."

Thanks for writing that.

I have written before that if we are going to use Christ as the example then missions should be at 30 years of age.

[_Wisdom Seeker]

Wisdom Seeker wrote:

"My original intent of my post was to some how find out why baptism or receiving priesthood is so closely tied to a person's age and not to their true spiritual and emotional maturity. I just have a hard time believing that everyone at age eight is fully aware of what right and wrong is. And I also have a hard time believing that a vow of a Nazarite or even the pure devotion that one can have for their belief can be made by children and often young adults."

Thanks for writing that.

I have written before that if we are going to use Christ as the example then missions should be at 30 years of age.

I totally agree with you!! While many come to some sort of UNDERSTANDING about life at different ages in their life, getting past my teens and past my twenties I learned so much more about who I am and what I am willing to believe. Seeing how I have moved on even well past my thirties I know that there is still wisdom to be learned, not only of myself but of what I truly desire and what I believe.

Perhaps I simply look at the statement "suffer the little children to come unto me" to not mean make your children follow in any and all traditions in which you happen to have been a part of yourselves.

[_Yoda]

We don't really know if there was documentation about Jesus' life between the ages of 12 and 30 or not. We know that Jesus' ministry, which began at age 30, was what was included in the version of the Bible that we now have.

There were a lot of nuances specific to Jewish law that contributed to ministry and missionary work being done at age 30. 30 was typically the age that Jewish royalty during that era married, and those who were deemed qualified were given the title of Rabi.

[_NorthboundZax]

Each religion, cult or whatever that claims they have these spiritual rites of passages for the benefit of their young followers must be able to accept the criticism that these spiritual rites of passages can and do also indoctrinate the young minds who participate in them.

Being ritually incorporated into a community and being indoctrinated aren't really the same thing. If it's indoctrination that bothers you, then criticize that.

LDS children are not indoctrinated by being baptized. They're indoctrinated long before that, at home and at church, through prayers, scripture study, Primary songs and lessons, etc.

Nevo, while I respect the idea behind rites of passage in general, I can't help but think that rites of passage like baptism in Mormonism behave like a cement for the actual indoctrination that takes place. Personally, I think 8 is about as insidious of an age as possible, and maybe why it works so well. The child is beginning to come into their own, but still a long way from meaningful independence - so it is easy to convince them that it is 'their choice' when it never really was.