Where do they go from here?

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_Quasimodo
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _Quasimodo »

ajax18 wrote:Isn't this just a trend with religion in general? There is a "decrhristianization" of Europe that has been going on for a while. On the other hand I haven't seen a huge demand for Moslem apologetics. They seem to be immune from a lot of the criticism that hurts other religions. I don't see much internal revolt within Islam.


Hi ajax, thanks for responding!

Yep, I agree that Christianity is on a bit of a slide. Another slow discent. Even the Roman Catholic church is amending many of its strongest tenets these days (evolution, etc.).

The Islamic faith exists mostly in third world type countries with theocratic styles of government that can chop off the odd head if they so please (Saudi Arabia and others). As Moksha says, this could tend to discourage an apostate. In the last 50 years or so many Muslims have immigrated to Western Europe, but I don't think they're getting many converts (haven't done the research so I can't quote figures).
Last edited by Guest on Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

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_Quasimodo
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _Quasimodo »

moksha wrote:Quasimodo, when conditions change the Church is able to adapt.


Forgive me, but they don't seem to be doing that very well recently. Still, maybe that's my question. How might they adapt to a colapse of membership?
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_Quasimodo
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _Quasimodo »

Wisdom Seeker wrote:Do you think the church would somehow go against some very basic priciples of belief to save itself from declining membership?

Do you think a declining membership will be attributed to a weeding-out process adminstered at a local level?

Do you think nothing much will change?

Do you think the LDS church will surpass many other churces in growth in the next few decades?


Hi Wisdom (very good thing to seek),

1. I think that's happened quite a bit (polygamy, etc.).

2. I think that the authorities could (or even will) call it that, but I don't think that explanation would fly.

3. BIG changes coming.

4. Seems to be slipping badly, already. I think they're heading for big declines.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_MCB
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _MCB »

Just my own imagination speaking here, but:

Given their belief in a mandate from God, they would ignore it until too late. It would become like the Tower of Babel, everyone believing differently than everyone else, and arguing about it, and the leaders afraid of emitting any doctrine, for fear of either being wrong, or causing further splintering. It will splinter in more directions than a compass and altimeter could together record.

Small Utah towns would become the last bastions, and once their kids leave to join the larger world, it will become a weird footnote in the annals of religious history.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_ajax18
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _ajax18 »

Do you think the church would somehow go against some very basic priciples of belief to save itself from declining membership?


Sure why not? Aren't the official manifesto and negroes holding the priesthood examples of that? At first the line was that polygamy was a true principle that had to be taken away because if it stayed the Church would die. Now polygamy is completely off limits as a topic, so as a true principle, it's not even taught anymore. When reporters state, "The Mormon Church no longer condones polygamy," the brethren are happy it is portrayed this way. How is that not a change?

Do you think a declining membership will be attributed to a weeding-out process adminstered at a local level?


Sure if you're talking to the people on this board. But in a mission conference it would be due to lack of faith, lack of sacrifice, and the weakness of the missionaries. It's due to low home teaching if it's the stake president talking to the elders quorum but the members tolerance for that line of thought is diminishing in my view. I don't really see this as something new that is happening. Missionary and retention efforts have not been based on doctrinal superiority but rather interpersonal relationships for many years now.

Do you think nothing much will change?


Things always have changed. Even the Church admits this to an extent.

Do you think the LDS church will surpass many other churces in growth in the next few decades?


No I don't, but I don't see why this is necessarily a problem with respect to Mormon Doctrine. Even the Book of Mormon states that the numbers of the Church of the Lamb were few in comparison to the numbers of the great and abominable church.

So what if 80% of the members leave. There's still an enormous amount of money in the Brethren's bank accounts. Doesn't that cement the Church as a force for some time to come.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Quasimodo
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _Quasimodo »

MCB wrote:Just my own imagination speaking here, but:

Given their belief in a mandate from God, they would ignore it until too late. It would become like the Tower of Babel, everyone believing differently than everyone else, and arguing about it, and the leaders afraid of emitting any doctrine, for fear of either being wrong, or causing further splintering. It will splinter in more directions than a compass and altimeter could together record.

Small Utah towns would become the last bastions, and once their kids leave to join the larger world, it will become a weird footnote in the annals of religious history.


Hi MCB,

It sounds like you may have a better grasp on it all than I do. Very astute conjecture about the "small Utah towns"!

I'm still wondering about all those assets and all that cash. Who do you think will end up with it?
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

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_Quasimodo
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _Quasimodo »

ajax18 wrote:So what if 80% of the members leave. There's still an enormous amount of money in the Brethren's bank accounts. Doesn't that cement the Church as a force for some time to come.


ajax,

All your answers were great! I'm wondering about the force and power of all those financial assets. I don't think they are owned by the "brethren".

I supposed that the church presidency could apologize for 180 years of inconvenience, liquidate all their holdings and send the cash back in an equitable manner to all the members, but I don't think that's the way to bet.

Some entity will emerge to own and administer those billions. Any thoughts on who they will be and what they will do with it?
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_MCB
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _MCB »

Lawsuits. I can think of quite a few populations that would have reason for class-action lawsuits. I am a member of one-- descendants of those who "persecuted" the church. Some LDS are offended by my mere existence-- see D & C 121. An unfulfilled "prophecy."
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Quasimodo
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:11 am

Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _Quasimodo »

MCB wrote:Lawsuits. I can think of quite a few populations that would have reason for class-action lawsuits. I am a member of one-- descendants of those who "persecuted" the church.


Wow! Sounds like a GREAT story there! Something you might share?
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_MCB
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Re: Where do they go from here?

Post by _MCB »

I'm working on it. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14867

A new edition of this is going to go up in a few days:
http://cassiusuniversity.wordpress.com/mcb/
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
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