Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

[_Daniel Peterson]

A silly and disingenuous response.

[_ludwigm]

Another silly and disingenuous response:

I've hosted two representatives of the Saudi royal family, a well-known historian from Belgium, and six shari‘a-court judges from Jordan.

Móricka! ( The young Maurice, one of permanent heroes of hungarian jokes, a jewish boy...)
Are you lamenting or are you boasting?

WARNING!
The relationship between the bin Ladens and the Saudi royal family is quite exceptional in that it not simply one of business ties: it is also a relationship of trust, of friendship and of shared secrets.

[_jon]

Motivated by comments in Mercury's "Just want to vent" thread down in the Terrestrial Forum, but not wishing to interfere with (or become enmeshed in) the venting, I mention two relatively recent items on Joseph Smith's early plural marriages that I think are helpful:

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... m=2&id=721

http://www.amazon.com/Persistence-Polyg ... 193490113X

Daniel, why do you think they are helpful to the discussion?

[_zeezrom]

Never mind

[_Themis]

Motivated by comments in Mercury's "Just want to vent" thread down in the Terrestrial Forum, but not wishing to interfere with (or become enmeshed in) the venting, I mention two relatively recent items on Joseph Smith's early plural marriages that I think are helpful:

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... m=2&id=721

http://www.amazon.com/Persistence-Polyg ... 193490113X

Daniel, why do you think they are helpful to the discussion?

I suspect because Mercury brought up fanny, although he never mentioned thinking Joseph had sex with her, which is one of the points the review talks about that Dan linked to. Many do not like how this marriage was set up, and I would agree. I see no evidence that he had sex with her, but certainly he would have at some point. I suspect she was a little young and Joseph was waiting. She was denied going to a dance by her parents which suggests they viewed it as a marriage in every way.

[_marg]

I suspect because Mercury brought up fanny, although he never mentioned thinking Joseph had sex with her, which is one of the points the review talks about that Dan linked to. Many do not like how this marriage was set up, and I would agree. I see no evidence that he had sex with her, but certainly he would have at some point. I suspect she was a little young and Joseph was waiting. She was denied going to a dance by her parents which suggests they viewed it as a marriage in every way.

Themis I believe you have the girls mixed up. This is based upon information I've picked up off the net so I could be wrong. Fanny Alger, 16 years was the one who worked in the Smith home and I believe was caught having sex with J. Smith in a barn by Emma. I believe the other the one you are thinking of, was a 14 year old daughter of one of the top men in the organization at the beginning and I think her name was Helen Mar Kimball.

[_Themis]

Themis I believe you have the girls mixed up. This is based upon information I've picked up off the net so I could be wrong. Fanny Alger, 16 years was the one who worked in the Smith home and I believe was caught having sex with J. Smith in a barn by Emma. I believe the other the one you are thinking of, was a 14 year old daughter of one of the top men in the organization at the beginning and I think her name was Helen Mar Kimball.

I stand corrected. I did mix the two up. For some reason Fanny was making me think of Helen Mar kimball. You are right that the evidence does suggest a sexual encounter, and again if she was a wife like many apologists like to claim then wouldn't it be ok? I tend to think Joseph probably used the God card like so many other religious leaders before and after him were common to do to get sexual access to followers. Apologists don't want to accept this and say he is the one exception becuase he was called of God to do it. :)

[_bcspace]

Doesn't matter, as Mormons can't get around Jesus' teaching that marriage is between one man and one woman. All else is something *other*.

Yet he doesn't teach against multiple instances of marriage does he?

[_Joey]

Since mid-April, I've been isolated in (among other places) the parts of Provo known as Los Angeles, Frankfurt, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Amman, Barcelona, Grenada, Monte Carlo, Nice, Florence, Rome, Naples, Mykonos, Istanbul, Ephesus, Athens, Venice, Ravenna, and Jackson Hole. Next week, I'll be lecturing in the part of Provo called Las Vegas, and I'll go from there to another section of Provo known as Denver.

It would be nice, in some ways, to be even more isolated, but I just don't have the time.

For example: Over the past week and a half, while living my deeply isolated, insular, and secluded life, I've hosted two representatives of the Saudi royal family, a well-known historian from Belgium, and six shari‘a-court judges from Jordan.

If you remember the movie "A Few Good Men" - there was a classic scene w Tom Cruise and Demi Moore in a restaurant having beer and crab for dinner.  In that scene Demi Moore, in her character,  goes on and on about all her accolades in an attempt to impress the character being played by Cruise.  In the end, after appearing frustrated and somewhat amused by one with the confidence Lt. Caffey (Cruise) asks:  "Why do you keep giving me your resume"?

The answer seems to fit the reason Peterson keeps attempting to do it with all my observations of facts w him!  Similar, and yet so similarly so sad.  

Peterson, we probably have as many stamps on our respective passports.  The difference is that I've had to invest and create companies that pay for my travels!!!  Being "at risk" is a bit different than being "at servant"!

Only in Provo baby, only in Provo and paid for by a church!!!

[_GlennThigpen]

Since mid-April, I've been isolated in (among other places) the parts of Provo known as Los Angeles, Frankfurt, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Amman, Barcelona, Grenada, Monte Carlo, Nice, Florence, Rome, Naples, Mykonos, Istanbul, Ephesus, Athens, Venice, Ravenna, and Jackson Hole. Next week, I'll be lecturing in the part of Provo called Las Vegas, and I'll go from there to another section of Provo known as Denver.

It would be nice, in some ways, to be even more isolated, but I just don't have the time.

For example: Over the past week and a half, while living my deeply isolated, insular, and secluded life, I've hosted two representatives of the Saudi royal family, a well-known historian from Belgium, and six shari‘a-court judges from Jordan.

If you remember the movie "A Few Good Men" - there was a classic scene w Tom Cruise and Demi Moore in a restaurant having beer and crab for dinner.  In that scene Demi Moore, in her character,  goes on and on about all her accolades in an attempt to impress the character being played by Cruise.  In the end, after appearing frustrated and somewhat amused by one with the confidence Lt. Caffey (Cruise) asks:  "Why do you keep giving me your resume"?

The answer seems to fit the reason Peterson keeps attempting to do it with all my observations of facts w him!  Similar, and yet so similarly so sad.  

Peterson, we probably have as many stamps on our respective passports.  The difference is that I've had to invest and create companies that pay for my travels!!!  Being "at risk" is a bit different than being "at servant"!

Only in Provo baby, only in Provo and paid for by a church!!!

Missing the point, or ignoring it.

Glenn