Is Joseph Smith glorified?

[_madeleine]

Didn't a Mormon leader teach that the prophets of the Old Testament were gods at this point?

ye are gods? 82nd Psalm and also quoted by Jesus is that what your talking about?

No, I remember reading and/or learning the idea, and what I read listed a few of the prophet's names, such as Abraham.

[_madeleine]

I certainly believe within Mormonism Joseph Smith is officially ranked as second in importance only to Jesus Christ. I'm not sure that is reflected in the time given to each on a Sunday, but I think that would be the position.

Second but equal it character:
”Well, now, examine the character of the Savior, and examine the character of those who have written the Old and New Testaments; and then compare them with the character of Joseph Smith, the founder of this work… and you will find that his character stands as fair as that of any man’s mentioned in the Bible. We can find no person who presents a better character to the world when the facts are known than Joseph Smith, Jun., the prophet and his brother Hyrum Smith, who was murdered with him.” Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses, vol. 14 p. 203)



I wrote a blog around this subject http://www.mormonglennbeck.com/mormon-teachings/mormon-salvation/praise-man-joe-smith-christ/.

Very interesting blog post. Thanks. Beck is a bit of a tangent, but your post reminded me of this blog post. :D

http://scottdodge.blogspot.com/2011/07/ ... s-god.html

[_madeleine]

Well, at the end of the day, whether or not Mormon apologists agree with the doctrine, the Mormon tabernacle choir is singing this doctrine on a fairly consistent basis, and it's still included in the hymnal. That, right there, ought to tell you something about the Mormon church's position.

Doc C

Hymns teach Mormon doctrine:

http://jesuschrist.LDS.org/SonOfGod/eng ... -the-hymns

[_madeleine]

I certainly believe within Mormonism Joseph Smith is officially ranked as second in importance only to Jesus Christ. I'm not sure that is reflected in the time given to each on a Sunday, but I think that would be the position.

Second but equal it character:
”Well, now, examine the character of the Savior, and examine the character of those who have written the Old and New Testaments; and then compare them with the character of Joseph Smith, the founder of this work… and you will find that his character stands as fair as that of any man’s mentioned in the Bible. We can find no person who presents a better character to the world when the facts are known than Joseph Smith, Jun., the prophet and his brother Hyrum Smith, who was murdered with him.” Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses, vol. 14 p. 203)



I wrote a blog around this subject http://www.mormonglennbeck.com/mormon-teachings/mormon-salvation/praise-man-joe-smith-christ/.

Reading and thinking more on this aspect of Joseph Smith, MCB once made the comment that if Smith had lived long enough, he would have started claiming that he was God. I think the list of quotes you gathered from Smith point to that direction.

In relationship to modern LDS though, is the current view aligned to the view Smith had of himself, and earlier Mormons had of him?

[_madeleine]

]

ye are gods? 82nd Psalm and also quoted by Jesus is that what your talking about?

doh! It's D&C 132:37....

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods....

is Smith doing the same thing at this very moment? And does Mormon success add to his "glory"?

[_ezravan]

Reading and thinking more on this aspect of Joseph Smith, MCB once made the comment that if Smith had lived long enough, he would have started claiming that he was God. I think the list of quotes you gathered from Smith point to that direction.

In relationship to modern LDS though, is the current view aligned to the view Smith had of himself, and earlier Mormons had of him?

I thought this quote was funny from 1997, when you break it down to it's essence. You would think they are speaking of Christ.

“How great indeed is our debt to him. …Great is his glory,… We stand in reverence before him… Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas.” (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 12/1997, p.2.)

I'm sure Mormons today would deny worship, and actually they have in the past too, but they do praise him. Praise to the man. What a foreign idea to both Jews and Christians.

[_ezravan]

Another interesting quote from Young:
“Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God to reveal the holy Gospel to the children of men, and lay the foundation for gathering Israel, and building up the kingdom of God on the earth, that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist....- Brigham Young

Compare that with Bible verses:

Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God

1 John 4: -Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

[those that believe in Joseph smith etc..] that spirit is of God.

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God

and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist....

but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world and wear special underwear.

...and lay the foundation for gathering Israel,

1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

...was sent of God to reveal the holy Gospel to the children of men,

2 Timothy 1:10
but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.



I think Young had 1 john 4 on his bed side table the night before.

[_madeleine]

oi

I don't have any problem at all with anyone praising another person, it's good to give compliments.

But, praising Joseph Smith seems to be with an underlying belief that he is godly, if not in nature, at least in a level of deeds.

As for Brigham Young, I think he had his own reasons for over-praising Smith. It lent credibility and authority to his own goals.

[_moksha]

The question was asked some years ago on the MAD board of whether the LDS posters worshiped Joseph Smith. The large majority said no, that they only specially praised the prophet. A small minority did admit that they worshiped Joseph Smith. Had Utah been able to remain in isolation from the United States, my guess is that formal worship of Joseph Smith would have commenced by now. Since history did not go that route, there is no indication that it will ever be a formal Church belief. He has been deified in some speculation that he is the Holy Spirit, but then again some believe that Cleon Skousen was not a crank. The only true indication of his ranking was during the Joseph Smith bicentennial when we had the Smithmas program overwhelm the Christmas program and that practice has gone away.

-

[_madeleine]

The question was asked some years ago on the MAD board of whether the LDS posters worshiped Joseph Smith. The large majority said no, that they only specially praised the prophet. A small minority did admit that they worshiped Joseph Smith. Had Utah been able to remain in isolation from the United States, my guess is that formal worship of Joseph Smith would have commenced by now. Since history did not go that route, there is no indication that it will ever be a formal Church belief. He has been deified in some speculation that he is the Holy Spirit, but then again some believe that Cleon Skousen was not a crank. The only true indication of his ranking was during the Joseph Smith bicentennial when we had the Smithmas program overwhelm the Christmas program and that practice has gone away.

-

I haven't heard that Joseph Smith is the holy spirit. Where did that come from?