subgenius wrote:We learn that we may be made righteous, because we are not free from sin....but JC had to be made sin, had to be treated as a sinner, because of us, not Him....because He was free from sin and transgression.
Didn't He lose His temper once?
did He? is anger always a sin? Psalms 7:11, Mark 3:5, Heb 4:15, 2 Cor 7:11, Psalm 2:12, Gen 31:31, etc...
what about Ephesians 4:26 ? "Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath"
clearly one can be angry and not sin.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
floatingboy wrote:to me, his main qualification for such a miraculous thing is that he is half deity.
agreed that it is "to you", but you have no real scriptural support for your claim, whereas there is a deliberate effort to establish JC's sinless qualities as being necessary for the atonement, especially in contrast to our sinful qualities.
.... i am ok with a Jesus who made mistakes but was overall a very honorable and praiseworthy person. and that what qualified him for an atonement was what qualified him for overcoming death: his godhood.
and this is how one starts an apostasy. You say "godhood", but have only established JC as a demi-god. You would impose sin upon Him which would negate the atonement. If He were "with sin" then He could have been any of us, and anyone on the cross would have been able to atone. To accept and be punished without ever having transgressed is essential. Why would you conclude that His being "part-god" would be what was necessary....besides it is clear in meaning that when His "heel was bruised" the god part no longer applied, else He would not have been able to die. The "part-god" is what kept Him clean, for God can not sin lest He not be God.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
jon wrote:You are probably better at this than me so can you show me where the line is drawn where on one side anger is a sin but on the other side it isn't?
"where"? the simple answer is that it is drawn between righteous and not. If you can not discern when anger brings about sin , then how do you know when your joy is righteous? If i laugh at man who falls on misfortune is my happiness not a sin? If i lose my temper at the innocence of a child is it not a sin? Now what is there when i smile at the gesture of friendship? or scowl at the unjust?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
If, as I taught on my mission, sinning is acting against the will of God, and if Jesus Christ is God, then it's hard to see how He could have sinned... unless one can somehow act against his own will.
It's almost like anything He did or could have done would have been right by definition.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Well, it is if you believe the 3 Nephi version of the sermon on the mount:
22 But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of his judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Well, it is if you believe the 3 Nephi version of the sermon on the mount:
22 But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of his judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Oh, I don't. ;)
But, if one does believe that then it does appear that Jesus is in danger of God's judgment. Or wait, maybe it means literal brother.
I think the destruction of property was probably illegal. No?
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Buffalo wrote: 3 Nephi 22 ... And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; ...
The aramaic word Raca survived the centurylong usage of reformed egyptian!
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Cardinal Biggles wrote:If, as I taught on my mission, sinning is acting against the will of God, and if Jesus Christ is God, then it's hard to see how He could have sinned... unless one can somehow act against his own will.
It's almost like anything He did or could have done would have been right by definition.
seems like simple enough of a concept, is it difficult for grasp? Similar to the idea that God will not tell a lie.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent