The evangelical problem

[_subgenius]

Ha Satan was acting in his divinely appointed role, regardless of the results. Or do you think that Satan comes off worse than Yahweh in this story?

i thought his appointed role was to incite man, not incite God, correct?
Is not Satan out of his job description in Job 1:6-10?
I consider that God may be baiting Satan and that a larger lesson is being taught, not just the one of Job 2:10. (Job 41)
I don't think either God or Satan come off "worse". Their roles are distinct, and though reason must assume "God's will", i can't help but consider that though Satan was given instruction to go after Job, he tugged at God's apron for that chance.
Now was Satan put in place by God for such Godly temptations? i am not sure, but we do know Satan was put in place for tempting and testing man.....i suppose we would need to consider what "motivates" Satan.

[_Buffalo]

Ha Satan was acting in his divinely appointed role, regardless of the results. Or do you think that Satan comes off worse than Yahweh in this story?

i thought his appointed role was to incite man, not incite God, correct?
Is not Satan out of his job description in Job 1:6-10?
I consider that God may be baiting Satan and that a larger lesson is being taught, not just the one of Job 2:10. (Job 41)
I don't think either God or Satan come off "worse". Their roles are distinct, and though reason must assume "God's will", i can't help but consider that though Satan was given instruction to go after Job, he tugged at God's apron for that chance.
Now was Satan put in place by God for such Godly temptations? i am not sure, but we do know Satan was put in place for tempting and testing man.....i suppose we would need to consider what "motivates" Satan.

What motivated Helios to pull the sun across the sky? Well, it was his job. The same goes with Ha Satan - the accuser or the opposer. He fulfilled his El-appointed role regarding Job. It just so happens that Job passed the test. In fact, Yahweh's role in testing Abraham's faith is very much like Satan's divine role.

[_subgenius]

What motivated Helios to pull the sun across the sky? Well, it was his job. The same goes with Ha Satan - the accuser or the opposer. He fulfilled his El-appointed role regarding Job. It just so happens that Job passed the test. In fact, Yahweh's role in testing Abraham's faith is very much like Satan's divine role.

I agree, but was it in his job description to incite God, incite man, or just incite? Are we saying that God brought forth Satan not just to test man but also to antagonize Himself into having man be tested? Clearly he was appointed to go after Job, but where do we see the instruction for him to engage God on the subject?
I mean in the family of Heaven, we have the Boss, the Underboss, and the Consigliere....is Satan the Enforcer, of sorts, a Caporegime?

[_richardMdBorn]

Other negative points of the modern day Evangelical (to highlight a few):
1. The Prosperity Gospel and the glorification of unchecked pragmatic entrepreneurship.

Many evangelicals reject this; your statements in general are too sweeping. Popular evangelical preachers such as Martyn Lloyd-Jones and John Stott rejected the prosperity gospel. You can hear excerpts of L-J's sermons at http://www.mlj.org.uk/home

[_moksha]

What's this got to do with Mormonism?
(It's a Mormon discussion board after all)

Same principle. Now ask yourself the question: Can one follow what Jesus would do and still be a good conservative? See how subversive that reliance on the actual behavior and teachings of Jesus can be! You need the verbage in all the other scriptures to help dilute this liberal Jesus way of being.

[_LDSToronto]

Christians schooled in an anti-intellectual, common-denominator evangelistic approach to faith rely upon business and consumer models to provide strategies for growth, and not to more substantial doctrine.
Other negative points of the modern day Evangelical (to highlight a few):
1. The Prosperity Gospel and the glorification of unchecked pragmatic entrepreneurship.

The LDS church preaches the prosperity gospel.

2. Lack of cohesive leadership and a rising chaos of its theology

The LDS church may have cohesive leadership, but there is no agreement on what it's core doctrines are.

3. Shift to "audience only" church participation

The LDS church gives everyone a calling, sure, but look around - who's *really* performing well in those callings?

4. Joel Osteen

Marlin K. Jensen, Dieter Uchtdorf

5. Substitution of entertainment for Biblical preaching

Have you been to a sacrament meeting lately?

6. Erosion of Gospel principles in its Doctrine.

Gospel Doctrine manual. 'nuff said.

7. No actual evangelical "history" within the Church.

LDS correlated "history"

8. A majority of members seemingly required to be apathetic and uninformed.

Ummmmmmmm.........Have you been to church lately?

9. and as one author has eloquently pointed out:

The fundamental problem in the evangelical world today is that God rests too inconsequentially upon the church. His truth is too distant, his grace too ordinary, his judgment too benign, his gospel too easy, and his Christ is too common
-David Wells

The problem with the LDS church is that God can not be found amongst the rules.

H.

[_subgenius]

Other negative points of the modern day Evangelical (to highlight a few):
1. The Prosperity Gospel and the glorification of unchecked pragmatic entrepreneurship.

Many evangelicals reject this; your statements in general are too sweeping. Popular evangelical preachers such as Martyn Lloyd-Jones and John Stott rejected the prosperity gospel. You can hear excerpts of L-J's sermons at http://www.mlj.org.uk/home

some reject it and some embrace it.....which only supports my point #2....chaos of its own theology

[_subgenius]

The LDS church preaches the prosperity gospel.

Huh? that a holy lifestyle is a path to prosperity or that hard work is ordained by God and will bring blessings is not the prosperity gospel. You should study a little about Kenyon, Jimmy Swaggart or Oral Roberts and notice that their teachings are not LDS teaching.
I disagree with your proposition and find your post's rebuttals of "i know you are but what am i" approach rather absurd and highlights your assertions as being shallow understandings of both the LDS teachings and the Prosperity Gospel..

The problem with the LDS church is that God can not be found amongst the rules.

H.

Wow, as we say in these parts...."hit dog hollers"

[_Buffalo]

What motivated Helios to pull the sun across the sky? Well, it was his job. The same goes with Ha Satan - the accuser or the opposer. He fulfilled his El-appointed role regarding Job. It just so happens that Job passed the test. In fact, Yahweh's role in testing Abraham's faith is very much like Satan's divine role.

I agree, but was it in his job description to incite God, incite man, or just incite? Are we saying that God brought forth Satan not just to test man but also to antagonize Himself into having man be tested? Clearly he was appointed to go after Job, but where do we see the instruction for him to engage God on the subject?
I mean in the family of Heaven, we have the Boss, the Underboss, and the Consigliere....is Satan the Enforcer, of sorts, a Caporegime?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Why WOULDN'T Satan report to El?

[_subgenius]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Why WOULDN'T Satan report to El?

i mean to say, it is obvious from the scriptures that Satan is intended, by God, to tempt, test, and incite mankind. However, we read in Job where Satan appears and seems to "incite" God....and even God gives notice to that idea (Job 2:3).
So, my question is, did God charge Satan with going after mankind only, or did God also commission Satan to test God?