Uchtdorf calls Guatemalans children of Lehi.

[Guest]

-

[_Drifting]

Okay ldsfaqs,

I hear what you are saying about your eight points being drawn from the Book of Mormon itself (circular reasoning perhaps?). So it will now be simple for you to quote the relevant parts of the Book of Mormon against each point, 1 through to 8.

Thanks

[_ldsfaqs]

Read LDS scholarship for a change people, I'm not going to re-invent the wheel for you.
I don't have all this stuff in my head.

Read the scholarship on Genetic Drift.
Read the scholarship on "others" in the Book of Mormon.
Read the scholarship from actual DNA scientists who actually know Mormonism and the Book of Mormon, rather than simply Southerton and anthropod Murphy who create strawmen and ignore important facts.

I'm not going to do your study for you people. Google search and learn for yourselves. It's not that hard.

[_DrW]

ldsfaqs,

First of all, my friend, "LDS scholarship" is an oxymoron. Most of it has more value as humor than as science, or as history. In short, it cannot be trusted and, in the main, is not worth reading.

If I were to debate this issue with you, I would require that your truth claims regarding New World history, archeology, geography, genealogy and ethnology, as set forth in the Book of Mormon, be backed by peer reviewed publications in mainstream scientific journals.

This is simply not possible, of course, because the entire Book of Mormon is fiction. While much of the Bible is myth and legend, written long after the events in it were supposed to have occurred, one can at least use archeology and contemporary writings to establish much of the narrative in place and time and historical context. Not so with the Book of Mormon - not even close.

So, let's move on to Mormon doctrine. You made a number of claims regarding Mormon doctrine, teachings, and sanctioned beliefs with respect to the Book of Mormon and pre-Columbian populations and cultures in the New World.

You were asked to show where these claims could be verified in the Book of Mormon or other sources of Mormon doctrine.

You simply declined to do so, demanding instead that others verify your claims for themselves.

Is this your idea of LDS "scholarship"?

Can you not see a problem here?

Do you not see why folks on this board might not take you seriously?

[_Buffalo]

Read LDS scholarship for a change people, I'm not going to re-invent the wheel for you.
I don't have all this stuff in my head.

Read the scholarship on Genetic Drift.
Read the scholarship on "others" in the Book of Mormon.
Read the scholarship from actual DNA scientists who actually know Mormonism and the Book of Mormon, rather than simply Southerton and anthropod Murphy who create strawmen and ignore important facts.

I'm not going to do your study for you people. Google search and learn for yourselves. It's not that hard.

Do you have any legitimate scholarship to quote in your defense? I've read the type of material you're referring to, and it doesn't pass muster, anymore than fringe theories about chemtrails or UFO encounters.

And the apologetic reimagining of what the Nephites were like is completely contradictory to how the Book of Mormon actually describes the Nephites.

[Guest]

Do you have any legitimate scholarship to quote in your defense? I've read the type of material you're referring to, and it doesn't pass muster, anymore than fringe theories about chemtrails or UFO encounters.

And the apologetic reimagining of what the Nephites were like is completely contradictory to how the Book of Mormon actually describes the Nephites.

Buffalo,

Perhaps you need to ignore what the Book of Mormon actually says and undertake instead a "more thoughtful reading" in the context of what God has revealed to modern day prophets and, more importantly, their apologists.

I feel confident that if you do this, with real intent and a desire to believe that the Book of Mormon is true, you will gain a witness as to the true value of the Book of Mormon.

Really.

[_Buffalo]

Do you have any legitimate scholarship to quote in your defense? I've read the type of material you're referring to, and it doesn't pass muster, anymore than fringe theories about chemtrails or UFO encounters.

And the apologetic reimagining of what the Nephites were like is completely contradictory to how the Book of Mormon actually describes the Nephites.

Buffalo,

Perhaps you need to ignore what the Book of Mormon actually says and undertake instead a "more thoughtful reading" in the context of what God has revealed to modern day prophets and, more importantly, their apologists.

I feel confident that of you do this, with real intent and a desire to believe that the Book of Mormon is true, you will gain a witness as to the true value of the Book of Mormon.

Really.

Don't forget, a witness that the Church of FAIR of Latter-day Moplogists is the One True Church!

[_SteelHead]

So when d&c 54:8 has the lord saying to go to the borders among the lamanites, who are the lamanites if not the descendants of Lehi?

[_just me]

So when d&c 54:8 has the lord saying to go to the borders among the Lamanites, who are the Lamanites if not the descendants of Lehi?

Non-Nephites.

[Guest]

So I am a lamanite! I am going to find myself a city wall to cry repentance from. Steelhead the Lamanite!

Dang autocorrect making me look illiterate. I need to proofread better.