Literal or only partially literal interpretations

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_Drifting
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:
Fear of God. Among all of the possible fears, this is the only one that is valid. However, it is not fear in the normal sense of lack of courage, but rather love, respect, and reverence.


More like Fear of God = Awe = living your life with a trembling awareness that it has meaning. The knowledge that choices you make have consequences of ultimate significance = love, respect, and reverence.

One must fear God but also develop an awareness of His love being all around us.
Have you ever looked at the night sky and felt awestruck but yet also overwhelmed by how seemingly minuscule you must be?

reference Rudolf Otto and the Mysterium Tremendum

"...this fear is due to the in-compatibility between man's egotism and the divine purity, between man's self-aggravated separateness and the infinity of God." - Huxley


No, I think you'll find LDS Fear of God = love, respect and reverance.
After all I lifted that definition directly from LDS.org from a piece by a General Authority from the First Quorum of the Seventy. Not Rudolf...
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:No, I think you'll find LDS Fear of God = love, respect and reverance.
After all I lifted that definition directly from LDS.org from a piece by a General Authority from the First Quorum of the Seventy. Not Rudolf...

I applaud your obscure reference from BYU devotional in 1984 and the New Era 1985, but at least it uses the one term you seemingly have yet to grasp (maybe its your milk mustache) - "reverence".
The Huxley quote and other citations are because you seem to be unable to grasp the simple concept of "Fear of God", or maybe that was Moksha or bcuzbcuz.
Nevertheless, i appreciate you conceding and/or affirming my original point which was that Jeremiah did not get it wrong, thanks.
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:No, I think you'll find LDS Fear of God = love, respect and reverance.
After all I lifted that definition directly from LDS.org from a piece by a General Authority from the First Quorum of the Seventy. Not Rudolf...

I applaud your obscure reference from BYU devotional in 1984 and the New Era 1985, but at least it uses the one term you seemingly have yet to grasp (maybe its your milk mustache) - "reverence".
The Huxley quote and other citations are because you seem to be unable to grasp the simple concept of "Fear of God", or maybe that was Moksha or bcuzbcuz.
Nevertheless, i appreciate you conceding and/or affirming my original point which was that Jeremiah did not get it wrong, thanks.


Where, on the official Church website (or other official source) do I find the Huxley or Rudolph quote? Because if I don't it's not official!
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:Where, on the official Church website (or other official source) do I find the Huxley or Rudolph quote? Because if I don't it's not official!

Fine, then just stick with the scripture references already provided. And then reference the GA talks that you have provided and if you can't deduce the rest then you are out of luck...and that is official.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:Where, on the official Church website (or other official source) do I find the Huxley or Rudolph quote? Because if I don't it's not official!

Fine, then just stick with the scripture references already provided. And then reference the GA talks that you have provided and if you can't deduce the rest then you are out of luck...and that is official.


Oh...gosh...really?
You quoted non official sources?

Shame on you...you...you...apostate!
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:Oh...gosh...really?
You quoted non official sources?

Shame on you...you...you...apostate!

but unlike you or buffalo, i never proposed them as official sources.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
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_Drifting
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:Oh...gosh...really?
You quoted non official sources?

Shame on you...you...you...apostate!

but unlike you or buffalo, i never proposed them as official sources.


So on the rainbow thread you denigrate Buffalo's Bible chronology because it's not from an official source, yet on this thread non official sources are okay for you to use....

That's hypocrisy!
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _bcspace »

Smith said something about the Bible being the word of God in as much as it has been "translated correctly".


Mormons don't have any problems with any Bible verse you care to quote though of course we may interpret it differently. Yes, the JST corrects/replaces/adds to extant Bible verses with what was originally supposed to be there (by revelation), but we can take the Bible as is with no problems of conflict or contradiction and no, we don't believe pi equals three.

The problem with the Bible is what's missing, not what's already there (1 Nephi 13).
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _Drifting »

bcspace wrote:
Smith said something about the Bible being the word of God in as much as it has been "translated correctly".


Mormons don't have any problems with any Bible verse you care to quote though of course we may interpret it differently. Yes, the JST corrects/replaces/adds to extant Bible verses with what was originally supposed to be there (by revelation), but we can take the Bible as is with no problems of conflict or contradiction and no, we don't believe pi equals three.

The problem with the Bible is what's missing, not what's already there (1 Nephi 13).



Which version of Luke 22:10 do you believe to be accurate?

The KJV
22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Or the JST (from memory)
...that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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Re: Literal or only partially literal interpretations

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

subgenius wrote:it would seem that one may have to consider a few things with your example.
such as:
1. All the listed translations are likely from the same source, from the same Greek text or likely from one of the other sources (ie. KJV) So, having many varied "translations" state the seemingly same notion is not a surprise.


Good point. I did not know the source texts used for these translations. So I looked them up. As well as, here comes some more translations.

New International Version 1984: Source material: Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. More information:
http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?a ... fo&vid=102

New Living Translation: Source material: Hebrew and Greek texts. Old Testament based on Masoretic Text (Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia) and was further compared to other sources such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint, Greek manuscripts, Samaritan Pentateuch, Syriac Peshitta, and Latin Vulgate. New Testament, the Greek New Testament (the UBS 4th revised edition and the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece 27th edition). More information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation

English Standard Version Source material: the National Council of Churches to use the 1971 edition of the RSV as the English textual basis for the ESV.

New American Standard Bible Source material: The Hebrew text used for this translation was the third edition of Rudolf Kittel's Biblia Hebraica, as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia was consulted for the 1995 revision. For Greek, Eberhard Nestle's Novum Testamentum Graece was used; the 23rd edition in the 1971 original, and the 26th in the 1995 revision.

GOD'S WORD Source material: New Testament: Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament 27th edition. Old Testament: Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. Work mostly done by Beck and Giessler.

King James Version: Source material: the New Testament was translated from Greek, the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew text, while the Apocrypha were translated from the Greek and Latin.

Westminster Leningrad Codex: Source material: the oldest complete manuscript of the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew, using the masoretic text and Tiberian vocalization

Septuagint with Diacritics: Source material: the Koine Greek translation of the Pentateuch, but came in time to refer to the Greek translation of the Old Testament adopted by Christians, incorporating the translations of all the books of the Hebrew Bible and books later considered apocryphal or deutero-canonical, some composed in Greek and some translations.


GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Don't you fear me?" asks the LORD. "Don't you tremble in my presence? I made the sand a boundary for the sea, a permanent barrier that it cannot cross. Although the waves toss continuously, they can't break through. Although they roar, they can't cross it.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Fear you not me? says the LORD: will you not tremble at my presence, who has placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though its waves toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

American King James Version
Fear you not me? said the LORD: will you not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

American Standard Version
Fear ye not me? saith Jehovah: will ye not tremble at my presence, who have placed the sand for the bound of the sea, by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it? and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Will not you then fear me, saith the Lord: and will you not repent at my presence? I have set the sand a bound for the sea, an everlasting ordinance, which it shall not pass over: and the waves thereof shall toss themselves, and shall not prevail: they shall swell, and shall not pass over it.

Darby Bible Translation
Will ye not fear me? saith Jehovah. Will ye not tremble at my presence, who have set the sand a bound for the sea by a perpetual decree, and it shall not pass it? and its waves toss themselves, but they do not prevail; and they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

English Revised Version
Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea, by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it? and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it.

Webster's Bible Translation
Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, who have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though its waves toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

World English Bible
Don't you fear me?' says Yahweh 'Won't you tremble at my presence, who have placed the sand for the bound of the sea, by a perpetual decree, that it can't pass it? and though its waves toss themselves, yet they can't prevail; though they roar, yet they can't pass over it.'

Young's Literal Translation
Me do ye not fear, an affirmation of Jehovah? From My presence are ye not pained? Who hath made sand the border of the sea, A limit age-during, and it passeth not over it, They shake themselves, and they are not able, Yea, sounded have its billows, and they pass not over.

The rest you can find at http://Bible.cc/ Good luck with the texts still in Hebrew. Let me know if you find anything out of the ordinary.

As far as the sea and sea borders being references to the Dead Sea most authorities seem to feel that:"The Dead Sea, unlike the Sea of Galilee to the north, does not figure prominently in the biblical narratives."

But if you mean that the author used "sea" in reference to the Sea of Galilee, could that also be used as an interpretation of waters following the Noah flood? Maybe the flood just covered the Sea of Galilee?
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
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