Large numbers of members apostatizing - says Marlin K Jensen

[_subgenius]

Runtu, I think that Jensen is conceding that people are leaving in droves...

there is no proof for your claim here about "droves". once again your exaggerations reveal your desires, and my what soiled desires they be.

...because they find out the truth about the Church's history, which they don't get from local or senior leaders or from any of the existing Church materials, including LDS.org.

zzzzzzz...no one actually cares about the church's "scandalous" (oh my!) past...its like talking about the illuminati, the pope, and ronald reagan...just rejects from the star trek convention give a hoot.

more likely its because they feel overwhelmed by the church itself, which is often the statement of most converts.
Runtu, omitted the obvious reason (at least obvious by most boards like this) - they found the church discouraged selfish and self-centered behavior.

[_Drifting]

there is no proof for your claim here about "droves". once again your exaggerations reveal your desires, and my what soiled desires they be.

zzzzzzz...no one actually cares about the church's "scandalous" (oh my!) past...its like talking about the illuminati, the pope, and ronald reagan...just rejects from the star trek convention give a hoot.

more likely its because they feel overwhelmed by the church itself, which is often the statement of most converts.
Runtu, omitted the obvious reason (at least obvious by most boards like this) - they found the church discouraged selfish and self-centered behavior.

What a shame you didn't read the OP before posting.
Elder Jensen (not drifitng) states, and I quote:

And they realize that maybe since Kirtland, we never have had a period of, I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having right now; largely over these issues

It seems Jensen doesn't agree with you, now why am I not surprised....

[_Buffalo]

The part that interests me the most is this:

So, we are trying to create an offering that will address these issues and be available for the public at large and to the church leaders, because many of them don’t have answers either. It can be very disappointing to church members.

It depends upon the specific issue of course, but their attempt to create offerings that address the big issues will fail because satisfactory answers don't exist.

That's true.

I think they can pretty much say good bye to anymore strong, long-term converts. That ship has sailed. But religion is mostly an emotional thing and lifelong members will stay for emotional reasons as long as they don't feel they're being used and lied to. So I think their best bet is the inoculation strategy. Tell the truth, warts and all, with the perspective of, yes, we know, it's messed up, but God was in there somehow inspiring the good parts. People will stay because they've been raised in it. No one in their right mind would convert to Mormonism knowing an accurate history of the church, though.

[_Buffalo]

Runtu, omitted the obvious reason (at least obvious by most boards like this) - they found the church discouraged selfish and self-centered behavior.

The church discourages doing anything good for yourself, really. The only exception is the upper tier in the pyramid scheme. They're living the good life, baby!

[_Molok]

Runtu, omitted the obvious reason (at least obvious by most boards like this) - they found the church discouraged selfish and self-centered behavior.

The church discourages doing anything good for yourself, really. The only exception is the upper tier in the pyramid scheme. They're living the good life, baby!

The only good deed is a deed that makes an old white guy richer. :)

[Guest]

Take your pick.

All of the above. The answers are there, but the critical use of the evidence is so convoluted it does take a while to sort it all out and most people aren't going to invest the time and energy. That's always been what the critics have counted on; that few are going to look very deep under the veneer to see the crapulence. Where I'm at, growth has slowed, but it hasn't stopped or reversed and the stats on activity and TRs remains the same while we still add wards.

I've had some pretty good experiences with people coming in angry and in a rush with all this "new information" and they leave satisfied and they're in the pews next Sunday and back to paying tithing by December. I am truly thankful for these boards and all the (what some people call) "bashing" I did as a mish and before and after. It has paid off. Anti Mormon criticism has always suffered from a certain irrationality and appeal to base emotions which are easily cured by reason and sanity. Sometimes all one has to do is point out the veritable zoo of hard cases, how unhappy they are or how crazed, ridiculous, and psychotic (lots of anhedonia here) they've become. But I've not minded delving into the doctrine and history; showing what rabbit holes antiMormon arguments have become. I don't do it as much here because I reserve that time for where it really counts and where the "rescuables" are.

And yes, I still recommend that NOMs and DAMUs cancel their membership, right off the bat.

[_Drifting]

I've had some pretty good experiences with people coming in angry and in a rush with all this "new information" and they leave satisfied and they're in the pews next Sunday and back to paying tithing by December. I am truly thankful for these boards and all the (what some people call) "bashing" I did as a mish and before and after. It has paid off. Anti Mormon criticism has always suffered from a certain irrationality and appeal to base emotions which are easily cured by reason and sanity. Sometimes all one has to do is point out the veritable zoo of hard cases, how unhappy they are or how crazed, ridiculous, and psychotic (lots of anhedonia here) they've become. But I've not minded delving into the doctrine and history; showing what rabbit holes antiMormon arguments have become. I don't do it much here because I reserve that time for where it really counts and where the "rescuables" are.

According to Jensen you are not doing a particularly good job of preventing the second great Mormon apostasy... ;-)

[_bcspace]

According to Jensen you are not doing a particularly good job of preventing the second great Mormon apostasy... ;-)

There's a lot of people in leadership who rely on my expertise in this area.... ;)

[_Fence Sitter]

With the advent of the internet mobile device, I phones, I pads, tablets and smart phones, the ubiquitous access to instant information will only speed up this process.

Jensen is right, the Church needs a better online presence.

[_bcspace]

Jensen is right, the Church needs a better online presence.

Yep. And I call upon those cowards at the MDB who are hiding their talent to come and post here and on other boards like this.