Marlin K Jensen: Large numbers NOT apostatizing

[_aranyborju]

Interesting that this comes out now. I suspect that drifting's source is accurate. The problem is that Jensen does not give any numbers, so it is very subjective, and he probably defines titanic quite differently then Kirtland apostasy. It also sounds like he is back peddling a bit after seeing the reaction it is having. Reassure everyone like bcpace that all is well.

The actual numbers would be interesting (a secret?). If it's only 5%, that means that there is no one left in 20 years.

Or 36% left in 20 years, which is still higher than the activity rate for my branch as it stands right now.

[_Drifting]

BUMP BUMP BUMP for Drifting with full retraction and/or back-pedal

(and by Drift's own standards, his fallacy on Jensen is a full condemnation on all of his posts - alas, the baby must be thrown out with the bath water)

Hello subgenius,

What is that you wish for me to retract?
Jensen stated that the Church was currently experiencing an apostasy of Kirtland size proportions. Not me. I just quoted him and took him at his word when he said:

The fifteen men really do know, and they really care. And they realize that maybe since Kirtland, we never have had a period of, I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having right now; largely over these issues. We do have another initiative that we have called, “Answers to Gospel Questions”. We are trying to figure out exactly what channels to deliver it in and exactly what format to put it in. But we want to have a place where people can go. We have hired someone that’s in charge of search engine optimization. We realize that people get their information basically from Google. They don’t come to LDS.org. If they get there, it’s through Google. So, we are trying to create an offering that will address these issues and be available for the public at large and to the church leaders, because many of them don’t have answers either. It can be very disappointing to church members. And, for people who are losing their faith, or who have lost it, we hope to regain to the church.

The fact that he has published what appears to be an opposite view very shortly after the debate generated on this board tells us a number of things:
1. Jensen received the feedback of this boards discussion.
2. Jensen misspoke either initially or is now trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

So, instead of bumping to ask me to retract what a General Authority said (which is the job of either Mopologists or the Church PR department), perhaps you should be pondering why the hasty retreat?

[_bcspace]

Marlin K. Jensen tried to be honest at a Q and A session at Utah State University.
He has said truths which are not useful. (c) BKP

Now it is the time for him to do penance barefoot in order to obtain release from the ban of excommunication imposed by (Pope Gregory VII) ehm... Thomas Monson.

Doesn't seem to be the case. The percentages remain about as they always have been in the region that includes John Dehlin's stake and indeed Church-wide in the USA as MKJ states.

The fifteen men really do know, and they really care. And they realize that maybe since Kirtland, we never have had a period of, I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having right now; largely over these issues. We do have another initiative that we have called, “Answers to Gospel Questions”. We are trying to figure out exactly what channels to deliver it in and exactly what format to put it in. But we want to have a place where people can go. We have hired someone that’s in charge of search engine optimization. We realize that people get their information basically from Google. They don’t come to LDS.org. If they get there, it’s through Google. So, we are trying to create an offering that will address these issues and be available for the public at large and to the church leaders, because many of them don’t have answers either. It can be very disappointing to church members. And, for people who are losing their faith, or who have lost it, we hope to regain to the church.

The fact that he has published what appears to be an opposite view very shortly after the debate generated on this board tells us a number of things:
1. Jensen received the feedback of this boards discussion.
2. Jensen misspoke either initially or is now trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

He didn't state the extant of this period of apostasy. His only qualification was the type of apostasy; "over these issues".

[Guest]

He didn't state the extant of this period of apostasy. His only qualification was the type of apostasy; "over these issues".

Bcspace, what proportion of the membership left the Church during the Kirtland era apostasy? If I recall correctly it was in the region of 30%.

Jensen equated it to an apostasy, the likes if which hasn't been seen since Kirtland. Perhaps he shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag. But he did. IMHO the Church could have just let the subject quieten down, which it would have done naturally over time. By publicly flip flopping on his comments Jensen has just highlighted it again and given it more credence by 'protesting too much'.

It's a shame because my respect for Jensen has been steadily increasing.

[_bcspace]

Reassure everyone like bcpace that all is well.

I've never claimed or believed that all is well. But I am in a position to know it's not nearly as bad as the anti's would have you believe. Such people are trying to borrow from the the Democrat's playbook of talking the economy down and they hope to do the same with the Church. There are indeed some disturbing trends that crop up from time to time, but none of them are directly related to people leaving the Church for any reason or group of reasons in particular.

[_bcspace]

Jensen equated it to an apostasy, the likes if which hasn't been seen since Kirtland.

Did he give numbers? Or hints of numbers? I myself lobby to have members remove their names. You sure it's not me? lol

[_bcspace]

Hilarious!! :D

It IS funny. But it's unlikely to be accurate.

The actual numbers would be interesting (a secret?). If it's only 5%, that means that there is no one left in 20 years

You don't seem to be very mathematically inclined.

[_Themis]

The fact that he has published what appears to be an opposite view very shortly after the debate generated on this board tells us a number of things:
1. Jensen received the feedback of this boards discussion.
2. Jensen misspoke either initially or is now trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

So, instead of bumping to ask me to retract what a General Authority said (which is the job of either Mopologists or the Church PR department), perhaps you should be pondering why the hasty retreat?

I didn't see a retracting it, but a suggestion that it is less them some seem to think, but again we don't have actual numbers, and I know bscpace will say what ever he thinks will help the church out.

[_bcspace]

and I know bscpace will say what ever he thinks will help the church out.

And I know you'll say whatever it takes to put the Church in a negative light regardless of lack of facts.

[_Themis]

and I know bscpace will say what ever he thinks will help the church out.

And I know you'll say whatever it takes to put the Church in a negative light regardless of lack of facts.

LOL Even though I am positive about the church in many areas, and only disagree with some of it's truth claims.