No Apostacy according to the Bible, Book of Mormon and D&C

[Guest]

The rejection of superstition. LMAO
You know, many scholars don't even use the term "Dark Ages" anymore...
Should I take your question as a 'yes' to my question?

I think when the human race takes a giant step backwards technologically and has to rediscover gears, cement technologies and other construction technologies - that yes, it should be considered a dark age. It seemed worldwide, every civilization failed to advance significantly and in some cases such as the descendant states of the Roman Empire - advancements were lost. Clearly something happened and it probably had to do with what Mormons believe the Apostasy was.

[_ludwigm]

Apostasy, if I may ask.

I was called multilingual somewhere in this site.
I've got it as courtesy, so I am accountable.

No picture. I am sorry.

[_just me]

The rejection of superstition. LMAO
You know, many scholars don't even use the term "Dark Ages" anymore...
Should I take your question as a 'yes' to my question?

I think when the human race takes a giant step backwards technologically and has to rediscover gears, cement technologies and other construction technologies - that yes, it should be considered a dark age. It seemed worldwide, every civilization failed to advance significantly and in some cases such as the descendant states of the Roman Empire - advancements were lost. Clearly something happened and it probably had to do with what Mormons believe the Apostasy was.

Your bias is showing. Maybe you should read up on the supposed dark ages and the age of reason/enlightenment. You might learn something...like the fact they had nothing to do with Mormonism.

[_Tobin]

Your bias is showing. Maybe you should read up on the supposed dark ages and the age of reason/enlightenment. You might learn something...like the fact they had nothing to do with Mormonism.

I didn't say it had anything to do with Mormonism, I said that Mormonism gives us a reason that it occurred. You are welcome to go with "you don't know" if you want too - as incredibly boring as that sounds. You don't have to believe the Mormon explanation, but it is undeniable that there was periods of time in which progress magically stopped throughout the world (not all at the same time mind you since many civilizations were remote from one another still).

[_just me]

Your bias is showing. Maybe you should read up on the supposed dark ages and the age of reason/enlightenment. You might learn something...like the fact they had nothing to do with Mormonism.

I didn't say it had anything to do with Mormonism, I said that Mormonism gives us a reason that it occurred. You are welcome to go with "you don't know" if you want too - as incredibly boring as that sounds. You don't have to believe the Mormon explanation, but it is undeniable that there was this period of time in which progress magically stopped throughout the world.

Oh, there are plenty of reasons why some people call a certain period of time in history "the dark ages." It has mostly to do with a lack of knowledge or understanding of that time period.

You certainly are claiming that "progress stopped" due to a loss of the True Gospel (which is understood by LDS to be Mormonism).

by the way, you are wrong when you say that there is a time period when progress magically stopped throughout the world. Seriously, dude, do some reading. The more you know...

Or, if you like, please provide evidence from a modern scholar of the early middle ages who backs up your claim that all progress stopped.

Do you really believe that all progress stopped from a few hundred CE to 1830ish CE?

[_Tobin]

Oh, there are plenty of reasons why some people call a certain period of time in history "the dark ages." It has mostly to do with a lack of knowledge or understanding of that time period.

You certainly are claiming that "progress stopped" due to a loss of the True Gospel (which is understood by LDS to be Mormonism).

by the way, you are wrong when you say that there is a time period when progress magically stopped throughout the world. Seriously, dude, do some reading. The more you know...

Or, if you like, please provide evidence from a modern scholar of the early middle ages who backs up your claim that all progress stopped.

Do you really believe that all progress stopped from a few hundred CE to 1830ish CE?

Again you are making idiotic claims and characterizations that I have not, IN FACT, stated.

Also, your denial that there was a period of time that is generally acknowledged by historians that occurred in Europe from the Fall of the Roman Empire to the start of the Early Middle Ages (around 12-1300 AD) where technological progress not only seemed to stop, but regressed is patently absrud. You also seem to be under the impression that Mormons invented the term "Dark Ages" or published all the history books about the "Dark Ages" and so on. That is absurd. The term "Dark Ages" has appeared in texts for centuries. Mormons did not invent the concept. So please, if you want to believe your internet whack-o's - go ahead, but don't pretend you really know anything about history what-so-ever.

[_just me]

Oh, there are plenty of reasons why some people call a certain period of time in history "the dark ages." It has mostly to do with a lack of knowledge or understanding of that time period.

You certainly are claiming that "progress stopped" due to a loss of the True Gospel (which is understood by LDS to be Mormonism).

by the way, you are wrong when you say that there is a time period when progress magically stopped throughout the world. Seriously, dude, do some reading. The more you know...

Or, if you like, please provide evidence from a modern scholar of the early middle ages who backs up your claim that all progress stopped.

Do you really believe that all progress stopped from a few hundred CE to 1830ish CE?

Again you are making idiotic claims and characterizations that I have not, IN FACT, stated.

Also, your denial that there was a period of time that is generally acknowledged by historians that occurred in Europe from the Fall of the Roman Empire to the start of the Early Middle Ages (around 12-1300 AD) where technological progress not only seemed to stop, but regressed is patently absrud. You also seem to be under the impression that Mormons invented the term "Dark Ages" or published all the history books about the "Dark Ages" and so on. That is absurd. The term "Dark Ages" has appeared in texts for centuries. Mormons did not invent the concept. So please, if you want to believe your internet whack-o's - go ahead, but don't pretend you really know anything about history what-so-ever.

You stated that all progress stopped in the whole world.

Could you please explain how correct Jesus belief has anything to do with technological advances?

[_Tobin]

You stated that all progress stopped in the whole world.

Could you please explain how correct Jesus belief has anything to do with technological advances?

I didn't say it had anything to do with Mormonism, I said that Mormonism gives us a reason that it occurred. You are welcome to go with "you don't know" if you want too - as incredibly boring as that sounds. You don't have to believe the Mormon explanation, but it is undeniable that there was periods of time in which progress magically stopped throughout the world (not all at the same time mind you since many civilizations were remote from one another still).

Read what I wrote instead of what is in your head and that you just made up instead.

[_ldsfaqs]

Certainly not in the period known as the Dark Ages unless you can offer proof that there were no believers during that time. Christ's church, as you have confirmed in a previous post, is made up of believers, called out ones, and is not an institutional church. Jesus' mission did not fail no matter the lie of Mormonism.

It is your statement here that is the "lie"....

When Christ himself came to the earth there was an "apostasy" at the time.
An organized Church still existed, and there WERE STILL good believers, but there WAS an apostasy, because as Christ stated, he wasn't going to pore new wine into old jars, because the jars would break.

While it is true that anywhere there are believers God/Christ is with them, but that is not the same as the authoritative and official Church and priesthood of God. After all, even the devils believe..... even Buddhists believe in some truths of God, that doesn't make them "the church" or the priesthood.

If Christ didn't want a Church and Priesthood, he wouldn't have established them.
The Bible is clear. Believers were baptized by those in authority to do so, but they didn't have the authority to bestow the "Gift" of the Holy Ghost. This example clearly shows that there is MORE to the Priesthood and Authority than just "feelings", i.e. that I feel I'm a follower of Christ, thus I'm perfectly allowed to do whatever I want in his name AND claiming it's his will and authority.

This is exactly why there are so many religions. People claiming authority UNTO THEMSELVES that God never gave.

In Christ's time there was an Apostasy, a FULL apostasy according to the Biblical standard.
In Joseph's time, there was an Apostasy, a FULL apostasy again according to the Biblical standard.
It's not talking about "believers", it's not talking about if "some" truths of God still existed, it's talking about the authority and priesthood of God, and the Fullness of His Everlasting Gospel.

It's the difference between man-made religion that contains some truth and no authority, and God's religion that contains all revealed truth, and all authority.

Start understanding the difference and be honest for a change anti-mormons.....

[_just me]

You stated that all progress stopped in the whole world.

Could you please explain how correct Jesus belief has anything to do with technological advances?

I didn't say it had anything to do with Mormonism, I said that Mormonism gives us a reason that it occurred. You are welcome to go with "you don't know" if you want too - as incredibly boring as that sounds. You don't have to believe the Mormon explanation, but it is undeniable that there was periods of time in which progress magically stopped throughout the world (not all at the same time mind you since many civilizations were remote from one another still).

Read what I wrote instead of what is in your head and that you just made up instead.

How does that have anything to do with correct Jesus belief?

Yes, there have always been periods of advancement and periods where there doesn't appear to be as much advancement. Again, how does this have anything to do with correct Jesus belief?

Your first comment about the "Dark Ages" seemed to be claiming that it was an apostasy from The One True Gospel that caused it. Is that what you were saying or not? Then you seemed to be claiming that the Age of Enlightenment came about due to the Restoration (LDS). Is that what you were claiming or not?