False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

[_maklelan]

Fine Megacles....tell me honestly how can you follow Joseph Smith's teaching when he fabricated men living on the moon and not only that but describes what they look like, fabricated what they are wearing and how old they live . How can you follow Brigham Smith when he teaches that the Sun is inhabited?

How can you follow Jesus Christ when he erroneously prophesied that the Second Coming would occur during the lifetimes of his disciples? How can you follow the Bible when it says Baalam's donkey spoke with him? How can you follow Ezekiel when he prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would raze Tyre into oblivion? How can you follow the authors of the book of Kings when they gave three entirely different and contradictory accounts of Sennacherib's invasion of Jerusalem?

[_maklelan]

Yes thankyou,.....I have to say megacles you are the first Mormon that has EVER admitted that something was wrong. Wow I am in shocked and impressed at the same time.

You really believe I and others think Smith and Young were right about the mooon? You can't possibly be serious.

However they did teach that men lived on the moon and sun.....no prophesy or no revelation it makes not difference to me....what make the difference is that is shows the character of these men.

So your Jesus was a liar as well? Shoot, there are few authors in the Bible that can't be shown to be flat wrong about something.

They lied and fabricated how tall the moon men were, they fabricated what they wore and they fabricated how long they lived. How can you trust people and a founder that makes things up and deceives his follows with such hogwash. I find it bewildering

Ditto regarding Christ and your Bible. Are you going to acknowledge these facts and shock and impress everyone watching, or is your tradition above trivialities like their founders and sacred texts being demonstrably wrong?

[_son of Ishmael]

Jason seems an awful lot like Little Nipper

[_maklelan]

Bump for Jason. How can he follow Christ when it's clear he lied? How can he follow the Bible when it's clearly wrong in so many places?

[_Bazooka]

Bump for Jason. How can he follow Christ when it's clear he lied? How can he follow the Bible when it's clearly wrong in so many places?

Great questions.
I guess, when it boils down to it, Christ is made in our own image based on what we want to believe.

[_LittleNipper]

Fine Megacles....tell me honestly how can you follow Joseph Smith's teaching when he fabricated men living on the moon and not only that but describes what they look like, fabricated what they are wearing and how old they live . How can you follow Brigham Smith when he teaches that the Sun is inhabited?

How can you follow Jesus Christ when he erroneously prophesied that the Second Coming would occur during the lifetimes of his disciples? How can you follow the Bible when it says Baalam's donkey spoke with him? How can you follow Ezekiel when he prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would raze Tyre into oblivion? How can you follow the authors of the book of Kings when they gave three entirely different and contradictory accounts of Sennacherib's invasion of Jerusalem?

Jason15:

It is good to know that you do not seem to be of a sort who is trying to support the philosophies of men but understand that the Bible is inspired truth and not simply made up stories. Now, maklelan does seem to make what seems to be a good point; however, we can witness that today Tyre no longer exists. But the Bible never says that men lived on the moon. This made Joseph Smith a false prophet and likely because of that Joseph Smith eventually was killed because of his deceit and proud spirit.

If you will study the passage in question, you will find the answer but this may help you --- Please read: http://arkiv.lbk.cc/faq/site.pl@1518cut ... id7520.htm

[_LittleNipper]

Fine Megacles....tell me honestly how can you follow Joseph Smith's teaching when he fabricated men living on the moon and not only that but describes what they look like, fabricated what they are wearing and how old they live . How can you follow Brigham Smith when he teaches that the Sun is inhabited?

How can you follow Jesus Christ when he erroneously prophesied that the Second Coming would occur during the lifetimes of his disciples? How can you follow the Bible when it says Baalam's donkey spoke with him? How can you follow Ezekiel when he prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would raze Tyre into oblivion? How can you follow the authors of the book of Kings when they gave three entirely different and contradictory accounts of Sennacherib's invasion of Jerusalem?

Jason15:

It is good to know that you do not seem to be of a sort who is trying to support the philosophies of men but understand that the Bible is inspired truth and not simply made up stories. Now, maklelan does seem to make what seems to be a good point; however, we can witness that today Tyre no longer exists. But the Bible never says that men lived on the moon. This made Joseph Smith a false prophet and likely because of that Joseph Smith eventually was killed because of his deceit and proud spirit.

If you will study the passage in question, you will find the answer but this may help you --- Please read: http://arkiv.lbk.cc/faq/site.pl@1518cut ... id7520.htm

Again, with regard to the different accounts of the invasion. The matter is likely that there was more than one invasion involved, if you study your Bible. Please see: http://markhaughwout.com/Bible/Hezekiah ... cherib.htm

Now, with regard to a donkey talking -------- it seems to me that the serpent did the very same thing in the garden. Could such have been telepathic in nature? Some day, I may just ask Jesus that question, but for how I know that nothing is impossible with God.

[_maklelan]

Jason15:

It is good to know that you do not seem to be of a sort who is trying to support the philosophies of men but understand that the Bible is inspired truth and not simply made up stories. Now, maklelan does seem to make what seems to be a good point; however, we can witness that today Tyre no longer exists.

That's not true at all. As this photo shows, Tyre most certainly does exist today, and has remained inhabited since the days of Isaiah and Ezekiel. Even after Alexander the Great's attack, the city was not abandoned.

But the Bible never says that men lived on the moon.

It did say Baalam's donkey spoke to him. Are you saying that's accurate? On what grounds do you reach that conclusion?

This made Joseph Smith a false prophet and likely because of that Joseph Smith eventually was killed because of his deceit and proud spirit.

If you will study the passage in question, you will find the answer but this may help you --- Please read: http://arkiv.lbk.cc/faq/site.pl@1518cut ... id7520.htm

I told you to stop wasting your time with these apologetics links. Let's a have look at the argument put forth in your link:

Yes, I believe the prophecy was fulfilled. But I ask you to go back to the chapter and read carefully the whole section of Ezekiel 26:1-14--and note well the nouns as well as pronouns used by Ezekiel. He begins by emphasizing that the Lord will bring "many nations" against the arrogant and smug commercial center of Tyre (verse 3) and that "nations" will plunder her (verse 5). The pronoun "they" is used. So a wide picture is being drawn here. And God says "I" am the primary cause of all this.

Then a specific example is given and the narrowed focus is on Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians (verses 7 through 11). Note the consistent use of the singular pronoun here ("he" and "his"), with reference to the Babylonian ruler as a chosen instrument of God.

Then starting in verse 12 and continuing through verse 14, the prophet reverts back to "they" not "he."

And you cannot possibly say for sure whether or not "they" refers to the many nations or just to the multitude of people involved in Nebuchadnezzar's siege. As we shall see, however, that's irrelevant.

Also, in verses 13 and 14 note the change back to "I", that is, the Lord as the One who will accomplish his will through later instruments. Ezekiel is again speaking of what nations would do to Tyre--above and beyond what Nebuchadnezzar would do or not be able to do. What God began to accomplish through Nebuchadnezzar he brought to completion through later agents. Historically, the Lord used Alexander and others for this purpose.

Since the change in active participants in this drama is relatively subtle, the reader may easily become confused or simply misunderstand. But the words really do not say that Nebuchadnezzar would be fully successful or bring about the full demise of Tyre.

It does say "with his axes he shall break down thy towers," which never happened. It does say "By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee," which never happened. It does say "With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground," which never happened. Nebuchadnezzar didn't do any of the things the text said he would. Additionally, v. 14 states "And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more." No matter who you believe would be responsible for this, it simply never happened. Alexander the Great built a causeway out to the island city, breached the wall, slaughtered many and led many others away to slavery. Most of the walls remained, however. He did not level the city or its walls, and it was never completely uninhabited or destroyed. This prophecy simply never came true, no matter who you pretend to assign responsibility.

Ezekiel's words in 29:17-20 may be read as commentary on the Babylonian disappointment. There is no misunderstanding in the Bible about what historically happened and there is no inaccurate prophecy.

Whoever wrote this obviously didn't lift a finger to find out what actually happened to the city of Tyre. This is all demonstrably false. The prophecy unquestionably and definitively failed. It is simply indefensible to suggest otherwise.

[_maklelan]

Again, with regard to the different accounts of the invasion. The matter is likely that there was more than one invasion involved, if you study your Bible. Please see: http://markhaughwout.com/Bible/Hezekiah ... cherib.htm

No, there's no evidence whatsoever of more than one invasion (and your link is to a student paper). Not only did such double-invasions not happen back then, but there would be no conceivable reason for it if the text is accurate, since it says he first gave Sennacherib all the money in his treasury. He would have no money for Sennacherib to come back for, and it obviously wasn't a scorched earth campaign. The fact that Jerusalem magically has all this money back, but Hezekiah refuses to give in, is indication enough that we're dealing with completely different accounts of what happened. The fact that the spelling of Hezekiah's name is different from one account to the next (and nowhere else does it change) is further evidence. There's just no possible way to avoid the conclusion that we have different and conflicting accounts of what happened.

Now, with regard to a donkey talking -------- it seems to me that the serpent did the very same thing in the garden. Could such have been telepathic in nature? Some day, I may just ask Jesus that question, but for how I know that nothing is impossible with God.

In other words, you just believe it because you've arbitrarily decided to believe it. Mormons have to be held accountable for claims of the impossible, but you just get to bark that "nothing is impossible with God." There's the unavoidable and asinine double standard into which every believer must inevitably fall when they seek to try to hurl empirical evidence against a faith tradition. Thank you for proving that you cannot even begin to defend your own beliefs from the very criticisms you level at the beliefs of others.

[_Fence Sitter]

It is good to know that you do not seem to be of a sort who is trying to support the philosophies of men.

Which means regardless of how much actual information is presented to him or you, it can be dismissed by calling it "the philosophies of men". Quite convenient.


LN this goes to the heart of my question you refuse to answer. Why is the truth witnessed to you by the comforter any more valid than the truth witnessed to Mormons by the same comforter?

Makelan continues to provide both you and Jason15 reasonable questions and in depth information regarding the cut and paste crap you both throw up and the best you can come back with is some form of the 'true Scottsman' response. "No true Christian would reject what you are saying correct? Must be nice to win by definition.

Why do either one of you get to decide what Christianity represents? Especially when it is clear you really misinformed on how the Bible and Christianity came to be. I know you think the answer is simple because the comforter has told you so but then we are right back to my question in which you cannot distinguish your witness from others with whom you disagree.

You know the difference between you, Jason15 & Makelan? In Makelan's case he can back up his beliefs with knowledge, you and Jason15 are stuck with bearing witness you cannot support.That ought to really trouble you, but you are so stuck with the 'sure knowledge' that you are right that you are able to dismiss any response, no matter how informative, with "oh those are the philosophies of man".

The bottom line is you're both just more examples of under informed religious fanatics who are not interested in learning more about either Mormonism or your own religion. You both have decided that you are some sort of special authority on what God wants people to do and have done so based on poor information and emotional responses.

As a side note it is really ironic that you both are trying to attack Mormonism here since this board is known for being very critical of Mormonism. Most of us here do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and we are very skeptical about the Mormon Church today. It should tell you something when the critics of the people you are attacking think you're wrong.