And HE is before ALL things---Jesus

[_maklelan]

"From you One [Jesus] will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity." - (NASB) Micah 5:2

Actually the Hebrew is מימי עולם, which is really just "from days of old." Note Deut 33:15 refers to the גבעות עולם. If Mic 5:2 means Jesus is uncreated, then Deut 33:15 means the hills of Judea are just as uncreated.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

Question: "What does it mean that Jesus is the 'first-born' over Creation?"

Jason, I looked all through my copies of the Qur'an, Dianetics, and the Vampire Bible and found nothing that says Jesus is before all things. Are you sure about that?


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett

[_jordon3]

Question for you Erotic Apologist, Psalm 89:27. Is David the first borne of Jesse?

[_SteelHead]

Round 2 also goes to Mak with his superior Greek and Hebrew skills. Note for the Bible thumpers..... Mak actually knows Hebrew and Greek.

Score:
Mak - 2
Bible thumpers - 0

Looks like you have some work to do guys or this is going to turn into a blow out.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

Question for you Erotic Apologist, Psalm 89:27. Is David the first borne of Jesse?

You mean this?

"I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth."

Speaking as a student of Scientology, I would have to say that it's an indirect and oblique reference to L. Ron Hubbard.


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett

[_maklelan]

Question for you Erotic Apologist, Psalm 89:27. Is David the first borne of Jesse?

Jason, I've explained the meaning of that passage already. For further confirmation of that reading, see Broyles, "The Redeeming King: Psalm 72's Contribution to the Messianic Ideal," in Eschatology, Messianism, and the Dead Sea Scrolls, 24; Hurtado, The Lord Jesus Christ, 103; Smith, The Memoirs of God, 59-60; Collins and Collins, King and Messiah as Son of God, 102; Peppard, The Son of God in the Roman World, 105-06, and pretty much any other contemporary publication that addresses the psalm from an academic point of view.

[_jordon3]

Sorry Erotic Apologist we have been interrupted. My question to you was "is Dave the first borne of Jesse?" Or was David Jesse's first borne son?

[_The Erotic Apologist]

Sorry Erotic Apologist we have been interrupted.

I responded to your question in my previous post. And in any case, I'm grateful for Mak's informative comments. I may not be a believer, but I appreciate sound scholarship.

My question to you was "is Dave the first borne of Jesse?" Or was David Jesse's first borne son?

It's only natural that the ancient prophets, with their limited and imperfect understanding, would confuse a future incarnation of L. Ron Hubbard with that of the ancient Hebrew tribal sky god.

When you've bought into the supernatural claims of Christianity, shouldn't you also give equal credence to the supernatural claims of other faiths?


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett

[_jordon3]

Well Erotic Apologist....I guess this is your answer "You mean this?

"I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth."

Question How do your interpret this? knowing that David is actually the last borne son of Jesse?

[_The Erotic Apologist]

Well Erotic Apologist....I guess this is your answer "You mean this?

"I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth."

Question How do your interpret this? knowing that David is actually the last borne son of Jesse?

I've already interpreted it. Please refer to my two prior posts.


_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett