Nephite (Hopewell Mik Maq) Old World Burial Rites and Ritual

[_Quasimodo]

There is a genetic link between Scotland and the Hopewell. The Orkney Islands just north of Scotland and Ireland have the highest concentration of Haplo Group X in western Europe. Its a small percentage but compared to other haplo group x concentrations its relatively high. that area is also well known in using the greek cross or in that area its mostly called the sun cross. And we all know that Isreal is the place that Haplo Group x distributed from. My opinion is this haplo group x movement North fits the Bible perfectly. There are people that believe the welsh and that part of the area made it to North America. But the 200BC greek cross tells us that it arrived from the OLD world not Ireland or Scotland.

“These Galilee Druze individuals represent the refugium of an ancestral group with high diversity and high frequency of haplogroup X, which was more prevalent in the region in antiquity, and from which the global diversity of X mtDNA haplogroup emerged.”

a relatively high percentage of haplogroup X are the Druzes of Lebanon, Syria and Israel, among whom X makes up 15% of maternal lineages.


In Western Europe, X peaks in Orkney (7%)

Please, just stop. You are becoming embarrassment. There must be some other hobby that you would find interesting that doesn't spread outrageous, erroneous theories over the internet. Maybe you should go back to school and learn some real history.

[_Themis]

There is a genetic link between Scotland and the Hopewell. The Orkney Islands just north of Scotland and Ireland have the highest concentration of Haplo Group X in western Europe. Its a small percentage but compared to other haplo group x concentrations its relatively high. that area is also well known in using the greek cross or in that area its mostly called the sun cross. And we all know that Isreal is the place that Haplo Group x distributed from. My opinion is this haplo group x movement North fits the Bible perfectly. There are people that believe the welsh and that part of the area made it to North America. But the 200BC greek cross tells us that it arrived from the OLD world not Ireland or Scotland.

“These Galilee Druze individuals represent the refugium of an ancestral group with high diversity and high frequency of haplogroup X, which was more prevalent in the region in antiquity, and from which the global diversity of X mtDNA haplogroup emerged.”

a relatively high percentage of haplogroup X are the Druzes of Lebanon, Syria and Israel, among whom X makes up 15% of maternal lineages.


In Western Europe, X peaks in Orkney (7%)

Please, just stop. You are becoming embarrassment. There must be some other hobby that you would find interesting that doesn't spread outrageous, erroneous theories over the internet. Maybe you should go back to school and learn some real history.

He is only interested in preaching his delusion. He has been corrected on this but will spend no time in actually learning some DNA science.

[_tapirrider]

I noticed genetic and some cultural link between the Hopewell Old World and the Irish/Scottish prehistory remains and genetics. At first I was working on tying all three together but decided to leave out the Irish part of it but the fact that they bury their dead the same as the old world and Hopewell is a definite plus.

In all, at least thirteen real tribes, five unidentified tribes, and three unnamed tribes have been suggested as "Welsh Indians."[42] Eventually, the legend settled on identifying the Welsh Indians with the Mandan people, who were said to differ from their neighbours in culture, language, and appearance. The painter George Catlin suggested the Mandans were descendants of Madoc and his fellow voyagers in North American Indians (1841); he found the round Mandan Bull Boat similar to the Welsh coracle, and he thought the advanced architecture of Mandan villages must have been learned from Europeans (advanced North American societies such as the Mississippian and Hopewell traditions were not well known in Catlin's time). Supporters of this claim have drawn links between Madoc and the Mandan mythological figure "Lone Man", who, according to one tale, protected some villagers from a flooding river with a wooden corral.[43]

David McKane, here are some good sources for disputing claims about Welsh in ancient America. If you want to pretend to be a researcher and not just act as a cherry picker, you need to be read up on things like this, because quite frankly, your nonsense is beyond disgusting.

Thomas Stephens 1758 essay on Madoc
http://archive.org/details/madocanessayondi00steprich

The Story of Prince Madoc's Discovery of America Part I
http://books.google.com/books?id=KBYJAQ ... &q&f=false
The Red Dragon, The National Magazine of Wales, edited by James Harris, Vol. VIII. - July to December, 1885, page 546

The Story of Prince Madoc's Discovery of America Part II
http://books.google.com/books?id=7oUaAQ ... &q&f=false
The Red Dragon, The National Magazine of Wales, edited by James Harris, Vol. IX. - January to June, 1886, page 172

The Story of Prince Madoc's Discovery of America Part III
http://books.google.com/books?id=7oUaAQ ... &q&f=false
The Red Dragon, The National Magazine of Wales, edited by James Harris, Vol. IX. - January to June, 1886, page 342

No credible scholar today supports any claims about the Welsh in ancient America. Such nonsense is only found in the pseudo world of cranks. Same with your cherry picked and distorted claims about haplogroup x.

[_Maksutov]

I noticed genetic and some cultural link between the Hopewell Old World and the Irish/Scottish prehistory remains and genetics. At first I was working on tying all three together but decided to leave out the Irish part of it but the fact that they bury their dead the same as the old world and Hopewell is a definite plus.

In all, at least thirteen real tribes, five unidentified tribes, and three unnamed tribes have been suggested as "Welsh Indians."[42] Eventually, the legend settled on identifying the Welsh Indians with the Mandan people, who were said to differ from their neighbours in culture, language, and appearance. The painter George Catlin suggested the Mandans were descendants of Madoc and his fellow voyagers in North American Indians (1841); he found the round Mandan Bull Boat similar to the Welsh coracle, and he thought the advanced architecture of Mandan villages must have been learned from Europeans (advanced North American societies such as the Mississippian and Hopewell traditions were not well known in Catlin's time). Supporters of this claim have drawn links between Madoc and the Mandan mythological figure "Lone Man", who, according to one tale, protected some villagers from a flooding river with a wooden corral.[43]

David McKane, here are some good sources for disputing claims about Welsh in ancient America. If you want to pretend to be a researcher and not just act as a cherry picker, you need to be read up on things like this, because quite frankly, your nonsense is beyond disgusting.

Thomas Stephens 1758 essay on Madoc
http://archive.org/details/madocanessayondi00steprich

The Story of Prince Madoc's Discovery of America Part I
http://books.google.com/books?id=KBYJAQ ... &q&f=false
The Red Dragon, The National Magazine of Wales, edited by James Harris, Vol. VIII. - July to December, 1885, page 546

The Story of Prince Madoc's Discovery of America Part II
http://books.google.com/books?id=7oUaAQ ... &q&f=false
The Red Dragon, The National Magazine of Wales, edited by James Harris, Vol. IX. - January to June, 1886, page 172

The Story of Prince Madoc's Discovery of America Part III
http://books.google.com/books?id=7oUaAQ ... &q&f=false
The Red Dragon, The National Magazine of Wales, edited by James Harris, Vol. IX. - January to June, 1886, page 342

No credible scholar today supports any claims about the Welsh in ancient America. Such nonsense is only found in the pseudo world of cranks. Same with your cherry picked and distorted claims about haplogroup x.

Apparently bomgeo's racist religious fanaticism makes him impervious to proof.

[_bomgeography]

There is a genetic link between Scotland and the Hopewell. The Orkney Islands just north of Scotland and Ireland have the highest concentration of Haplo Group X in western Europe. Its a small percentage but compared to other haplo group x concentrations its relatively high. that area is also well known in using the greek cross or in that area its mostly called the sun cross. And we all know that Isreal is the place that Haplo Group x distributed from. My opinion is this haplo group x movement North fits the Bible perfectly. There are people that believe the welsh and that part of the area made it to North America. But the 200BC greek cross tells us that it arrived from the OLD world not Ireland or Scotland.

“These Galilee Druze individuals represent the refugium of an ancestral group with high diversity and high frequency of haplogroup X, which was more prevalent in the region in antiquity, and from which the global diversity of X mtDNA haplogroup emerged.”

a relatively high percentage of haplogroup X are the Druzes of Lebanon, Syria and Israel, among whom X makes up 15% of maternal lineages.


In Western Europe, X peaks in Orkney (7%)

Please, just stop. You are becoming embarrassment. There must be some other hobby that you would find interesting that doesn't spread outrageous, erroneous theories over the internet. Maybe you should go back to school and learn some real history.

I should study the Book of Mormon more.

[_Res Ipsa]

OK, I followed your click bate (your welcome).

The funeral traditions you posted are common throughout the world. Nothing to see here. Tombs and stone lined burials are found everywhere. This one is from Scotland. Maybe the Hopewell were Scottish. After all, Hopewell is an English name and that's close.



To paraphrase "The Sopranos", have you ever pondered the connection between the hunch back of Notre Dame and the halfbacks and quarterbacks of Notre Dame? It makes you think.

Are you saying the OP is promoting clickturbation?

[_huckelberry]

I'm reminded of the career of Carlos Castaneda when I look at these materials. And Marlo Morgan. T. Lobsang Rampa. And many others. People who create fantasies about indigenous and other people for their own exploitive, self-aggrandizing purposes. Deeply disrespectful and actually racist.

My wife is half Yaqui. I have asked her relatives about Don Juan (they had all read the books) and none of them had ever heard of Castaneda from any of their family. They also said that the peyote and other hallucinogenic rituals are definitely not part of Yaqui culture.

My wife also gives me a very stony stare if I call her a Lamanite.

the sort of parallels that the opening post describes seems a long way short of the invention, imagination and entertainment of Castaneda or perhaps the Rampa fellow.NowI wasn't thinking that great height is found in Castenada but some imagination and entertainment have been found.

Qusimado, you admit that her relatives read the books and survived the insult. I would not be surprised if they found a few negative opinions though. Bringing him up reminded me of my own ambivalence. I read his first four books back whenthey came out and were part of the drug exploration. They read to my mind as fictionalized events and exaggurated expectations. Yet there is an amusing engagement of the imagination. I suppose I could wonder if there is perhaps some experience behind the fiction. He could be describing generalized ideas that are not and not intended to be representative of normal Yaqui culture but of a tiny subset. (Yes maybe only of Castaneda himself some books and his own drug experiments?)(or perhaps with some oddball character roaming the desert, or not)

People make imaginative reflections of other peoples cultures. I myself do not see that as racist though it is sometimes more informative about the culture doing the reflecting than it is about the intended described culture. The Book of Mormon comes to mind as an example.

A person could consider the Rolling Stones as an imaginative reflection upon a different racial and national culture. (using Black American music and culture for their own ends) Somebody might say imperialist and racist, I do not sympathize with such a view.

[_tapirrider]

I should study the Book of Mormon more.

That's the ticket! Study the Book of Mormon more. That will bring you closer to the truth and will help you to deal with all those other Mormons who are deceived and convinced that the stories happened in Mesoamerica! Surely the Holy Ghost will confirm to you that Haplogroup X is the evidence you desire and that scientists are wrong about it's mutation rate and age, just as they are wrong about radiocarbon. Yes, the Book of Mormon will give you the answers!

[_Philo Sofee]

Having read several threads I think he is a troll or an anti attempting to make the Book of Mormon look dumber. I think this poster gets off twitting you guys or something. It is hard to believe he is at all serious about anything he posts.

[Guest]

Having read several threads I think he is a troll or an anti attempting to make the Book of Mormon look dumber. I think this poster gets off twitting you guys or something. It is hard to believe he is at all serious about anything he posts.

Could he be still fighting Meldrum's in-church battle with the Meso American apologists? All of his blog entries follow Meldrum's writings, topic by topic.

I know this is old news, but many of the details were new to me so I read a bit of the FARMs take-down of Meldrum, as discussed in Southerton's blog. A bit dangerous, I thought, to have that up on an LDS site, because all the scientific reasons they gave for Meldrum being wrong would apply equally as strongly to ALL arguments that the Book of Mormon is historic.