DC Comics Jesus

[_Maksutov]

The reality is that this event actually happened.

What happened, Nipper?

[_Goya]

Little Nip, I thought you were a Biblical literalist.

I am a literalist where it is warranted --- where the Bible uses words such as "like" and "as" it isn't. The reality is that this event actually happened. God had it recorded and wanted us to study and think about the implications. One should always look to GOD before reacting. Prayer is always the very best way. And this is story demonstrates what happens when one doesn't.

Yet you take Pastor Steve's explanations over the plain words of the text.

[_LittleNipper]

I am a literalist where it is warranted --- where the Bible uses words such as "like" and "as" it isn't. The reality is that this event actually happened. God had it recorded and wanted us to study and think about the implications. One should always look to GOD before reacting. Prayer is always the very best way. And this is story demonstrates what happens when one doesn't.

Yet you take Pastor Steve's explanations over the plain words of the text.

I see Pastor's Steve's explanation as not distracting from the event nor the text. He doesn't deny the event happened ---- he explains it, and likely why GOD included as a part of the Bible. Also, it reiterates the very real true horror of what the former story of Sodom and Gomorrah was about. Demonstrates exactly how indifference and unrestrained sexuality will destroy everything it touches...

[_I have a question]

Absolute TRASH! I'll never buy it. I'll never recommend it! And people who would make money at the expense of the misrepresentation of others is really nothing more than a Nazi.

Do you have a similarly vehement view on the Levite who offered up his concubine for raping and dismemberment in order to protect himself? What about someone who drowns men women and children - are they the equivalent of "Nazis"?

You may wish to study the Bible in this regard more. Please see:

http://pstevekim.blogspot.com/2007/04/j ... ou-do.html

I note you haven't answered the actual question asked.

[_moksha]

Do you buy or recommend other more appropriate comic books?

Not since I was a teen. I liked Conan the Barbarian --- never believed it to be true not did it make light of Jesus...

I was into comics back when too. I started out with Superman. Even purchased issue #1 of the Fantastic Four.

Did you ever read Thor and wonder about your own part in the coming Ragnarok? I imagine all of us want our place to be secure within the Halls of Valhalla, where we can simultaneously hold a leg of mutton, a flagon of mead, and have a comely wench by our side singing of the bold battles and gold we had made.

[_LittleNipper]

Do you have a similarly vehement view on the Levite who offered up his concubine for raping and dismemberment in order to protect himself? What about someone who drowns men women and children - are they the equivalent of "Nazis"?

You may wish to study the Bible in this regard more. Please see:

http://pstevekim.blogspot.com/2007/04/j ... ou-do.html

I note you haven't answered the actual question asked.

I don't understand your issue. I feel that both the pastor and I are in agreement with the understanding of the specific text. We both accept a literal interpretation and this is a sincere attempt to bring its understanding to those who are seeking understanding and will do nothing for those seeking to discredit the Bible because they don't what to understand. I believe the man was heartless and really cared nothing for the Concubine. He never reached out to GOD --- though it could be argued that neither did the concubine, her father, or the leader throughout Israel. People often live their lives without one consideration of GOD. And all they do is make a mess of everything while believing they are vindicated.

[_Goya]

I don't understand your issue. I feel that both the pastor and I are in agreement with the understanding of the specific text. We both accept a literal interpretation and this is a sincere attempt to bring its understanding to those who are seeking understanding and will do nothing for those seeking to discredit the Bible because they don't what to understand.

Let's look at your claim. Here's the first verse of Judges, Chapter 19.

And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah.

That's simple, straightforward, and easy to understand.


Here's what Pastor Steve claims:

Judges 19 tells a story of another Levite. This Levite is a different person from the Levite, Jonathan the grand son of Moses from chapter 17-18. We are not given the name of this Levite in chapter 19. We are told that he lived in the hill country of Ephraim. Just like Jonathan the Levite from the chapter 17 & 18, the Levite in chapter 19 was not living in his designated Levite city where he was to serve God. This Levite too was a renegade Levite who wasn’t living out God’s will for him.

We are told that this Levite took a concubine from Bethlehem in Judah. We are not told that the Levite has another wife, so it appears that this concubine was the first and sole wife for this Levite.

No, we don't know this Levite is a renegade. A sojourn generally means a temporary stay. I'm sure God would have mentioned that the Levite was a reprobate if He had wanted us to think that. And no, it does not appear this concubine was the Levite's first and sole wife; that's why she was called a concubine and not his first and only wife.


Let's look at verse 2.

And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months.

Once again, that's pretty clear.

However, Pastor Steve says--

Verse 2 tells us, “she was unfaithful to him.” But, another translation, New Revised Standard Version, translates this as “his concubine became angry with  him.” The differences come from the different manuscript sources used to translate this verse. New Revised Standard Version used older manuscripts to translate this verse; it exonerates the concubine and places the blame for the marital problem on the Levite. It seems unlikely that this concubine indeed if she committed adultery would have been able to go back to her father’s house. If she committed adultery, likely outcome would have been honor killing by her husband. Verse 2 and 3 tells us that the Levite after four months since she left, he went after her to persuade her to return to him. The Levite going back to his adulterous wife to have her come back to him seems unlikely considering how he treated her later in this story.

This is gibberish. Even if one accepts the one Biblical translation that says his concubine became angry with him, how does this place the "blame for the marital problem on the Levite"? Being unfaithful wouldn't necessarily make her father reject her. Or call for an honor killing. Why would the type of guy, the kind who's going to give his concubine to a crowd to rape senseless, bother with an honor killing? Pastor Steve is pulling this out of his nether regions.

I'm not going to go on. This commentary you're using is just too silly. Please read the plain text of the Bible. If God had wanted Pastor Steve's speculations, He would have put them in the book, Himself. I wish Bible literalists would literally read the book and not rely on someone else to do it for them.

If, as you say, the Bible is God's word, take Him at His word. Not Pastor Steve's.

[_LittleNipper]

I don't understand your issue. I feel that both the pastor and I are in agreement with the understanding of the specific text. We both accept a literal interpretation and this is a sincere attempt to bring its understanding to those who are seeking understanding and will do nothing for those seeking to discredit the Bible because they don't what to understand.

Let's look at your claim. Here's the first verse of Judges, Chapter 19.

And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah.

That's simple, straightforward, and easy to understand.


Here's what Pastor Steve claims:

Judges 19 tells a story of another Levite. This Levite is a different person from the Levite, Jonathan the grand son of Moses from chapter 17-18. We are not given the name of this Levite in chapter 19. We are told that he lived in the hill country of Ephraim. Just like Jonathan the Levite from the chapter 17 & 18, the Levite in chapter 19 was not living in his designated Levite city where he was to serve God. This Levite too was a renegade Levite who wasn’t living out God’s will for him.

We are told that this Levite took a concubine from Bethlehem in Judah. We are not told that the Levite has another wife, so it appears that this concubine was the first and sole wife for this Levite.

No, we don't know this Levite is a renegade. A sojourn generally means a temporary stay. I'm sure God would have mentioned that the Levite was a reprobate if He had wanted us to think that. And no, it does not appear this concubine was the Levite's first and sole wife; that's why she was called a concubine and not his first and only wife.


Let's look at verse 2.

And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months.

Once again, that's pretty clear.

However, Pastor Steve says--

Verse 2 tells us, “she was unfaithful to him.” But, another translation, New Revised Standard Version, translates this as “his concubine became angry with  him.” The differences come from the different manuscript sources used to translate this verse. New Revised Standard Version used older manuscripts to translate this verse; it exonerates the concubine and places the blame for the marital problem on the Levite. It seems unlikely that this concubine indeed if she committed adultery would have been able to go back to her father’s house. If she committed adultery, likely outcome would have been honor killing by her husband. Verse 2 and 3 tells us that the Levite after four months since she left, he went after her to persuade her to return to him. The Levite going back to his adulterous wife to have her come back to him seems unlikely considering how he treated her later in this story.

This is gibberish. Even if one accepts the one Biblical translation that says his concubine became angry with him, how does this place the "blame for the marital problem on the Levite"? Being unfaithful wouldn't necessarily make her father reject her. Or call for an honor killing. Why would the type of guy, the kind who's going to give his concubine to a crowd to rape senseless, bother with an honor killing? Pastor Steve is pulling this out of his nether regions.

I'm not going to go on. This commentary you're using is just too silly. Please read the plain text of the Bible. If God had wanted Pastor Steve's speculations, He would have put them in the book, Himself. I wish Bible literalists would literally read the book and not rely on someone else to do it for them.

If, as you say, the Bible is God's word, take Him at His word. Not Pastor Steve's.

Any man who would throw his wife, concubine, or girlfriend out to a bunch of sexual deviates to molest and rape, is a reprobate, a creep, and not worth spit. And yet this man illustrates all the self righteous people who believe they have been wronged, they have been hurt, and their lives matter more than that of anyone else... And you can say what you wish but nobody prayed or beseeched GOD for help throughout the entire ordeal. And all this ignorant Levite thought of was himself like most people. He cared nothing for this woman. And oddly, the reality is that this Levite may even have been a homosexual. Why would all these men want to rape him? And why would male homosexuals then rape this woman --- since they aren't supposed to like women? And if this woman was an adulteress (even though being such is evil), perhaps it was because this self-centered jerk of a husband rejected having sex with her! Did they even have children?

The story implies a lot to those who are not 2 dimensional. It isn't a simple black and white story. GOD is trying to reveal something and one doesn't need others to explain everything if one is willing to look deeply and not be so ready to insult GOD, disparage the Bible, or reject whatever anyone else considers...

[_Maksutov]

Any man who would throw his wife, concubine, or girlfriend out to a bunch of sexual deviates to molest and rape, is a reprobate, a creep, and not worth spit. And yet this man illustrates all the self righteous people who believe they have been wronged, they have been hurt, and their lives matter more than that of anyone else... And you can say what you wish but nobody prayed or beseeched GOD for help throughout the entire ordeal. And all this ignorant Levite thought of was himself like most people. He cared nothing for this woman. And oddly, the reality is that this Levite may even have been a homosexual. Why would all these men want to rape him? And why would male homosexuals then rape this woman --- since they aren't supposed to like women? And if this woman was an adulteress (even though being such is evil), perhaps it was because this self-centered jerk of a husband rejected having sex with her! Did they even have children?

The story implies a lot to those who are not 2 dimensional. It isn't a simple black and white story. GOD is trying to reveal something and one doesn't need others to explain everything if one is willing to look deeply and not be so ready to insult GOD, disparage the Bible, or reject whatever anyone else considers...

Yep, lots of questions, Nipper. Because it doesn't add up. It doesn't add up because it's stories that were passed around like a game of Telephone and changed for their propaganda value. If they were clear we wouldn't have such a mess of Christianity like we do today, would we?

Are you impressed when someone goes on and on to you about Allah and the Q'ran? That's how many of us feel about the Bible. We've been pounded over the head with its manic illiteracies and learned to laugh at it. It's a healthy response to something so obviously fabricated and irrational.

[_LittleNipper]

Any man who would throw his wife, concubine, or girlfriend out to a bunch of sexual deviates to molest and rape, is a reprobate, a creep, and not worth spit. And yet this man illustrates all the self righteous people who believe they have been wronged, they have been hurt, and their lives matter more than that of anyone else... And you can say what you wish but nobody prayed or beseeched GOD for help throughout the entire ordeal. And all this ignorant Levite thought of was himself like most people. He cared nothing for this woman. And oddly, the reality is that this Levite may even have been a homosexual. Why would all these men want to rape him? And why would male homosexuals then rape this woman --- since they aren't supposed to like women? And if this woman was an adulteress (even though being such is evil), perhaps it was because this self-centered jerk of a husband rejected having sex with her! Did they even have children?

The story implies a lot to those who are not 2 dimensional. It isn't a simple black and white story. GOD is trying to reveal something and one doesn't need others to explain everything if one is willing to look deeply and not be so ready to insult GOD, disparage the Bible, or reject whatever anyone else considers...

Yep, lots of questions, Nipper. Because it doesn't add up. It doesn't add up because it's stories that were passed around like a game of Telephone and changed for their propaganda value. If they were clear we wouldn't have such a mess of Christianity like we do today, would we?

Are you impressed when someone goes on and on to you about Allah and the Q'ran? That's how many of us feel about the Bible. We've been pounded over the head with its manic illiteracies and learned to laugh at it. It's a healthy response to something so obviously fabricated and irrational.

It doesn't sound fabricated at all. No more fabricated than a country shutting down on account of building a border wall or not building a wall.... What I don't get with you is that you hang around here and yet are not the least interested in GOD or proof -- one way or another. I certainly don't hang around atheist sights. At least Mormons accept the Bible as do Muslims. They just add, subtract and believe works will get them a special spot in GOD's heaven. But you are simply wasting your time ----------------- unless you are in fact really interested...