Joseph Smith's Trinity

[_Maksutov]

Maksukov, the main idea of the trinity is that Jesus death on the cross was God himself suffering for us and not just some unlucky bloke. It underlines the idea that we are to help and respect each other even to the point of being willing to suffer for each other. The human enterprise is not so much a contest or test of who gets the most prizes but a whole family helping each other.

I don't get any of that out of a "holy trinity". I don't think it adds anything but a metaphor that the faithful accept literally and are thereby more confused by. Altruism and humanity were taught long before Christ and in other places. No barbaric display of a bloody "atonement" is necessary for human improvement any more than ripping out someone's heart to assure that the Sun rises.

[_huckelberry]

I don't get any of that out of a "holy trinity". I don't think it adds anything but a metaphor that the faithful accept literally and are thereby more confused by. Altruism and humanity were taught long before Christ and in other places. No barbaric display of a bloody "atonement" is necessary for human improvement any more than ripping out someone's heart to assure that the Sun rises.

Maksukov,

Of course altruism and humanity were observed to be important to our humanness long before Jesus. People would naturally teach it. It would to my mind be absurd to imagine God creating people without those and then try to switch foundations in the middle of history. All of Jesus teachings rely upon our recognizing what he says within ourselves.

The trinity is a church conclusion from what they understood happened with Jesus. It has been kept to help hold those understandings together. It is a reference point. I would not imaging it could work the other way around , you would not be able to derive the Christian story from the bare idea of the trinity.

The atonement has little to nothing to do with Aztec sacrifice. I can see common ground with the Plains Indian Sun Dance(personal endurance and sacrifice to increase the spiritual strength of the community)
,,,,,,,,,

Previous post you noted that not all Christian groups are Trinitarian. This is true but, so? The LDS are the largest such group and they are closer to Trinitarian than the other groups. I think the Trinity makes a more coherent picture of Christian ideas so Christian groups tend in that direction.

You complain that some Christian people have some different food ideas. Sorry I cannot find anyplace to care. In my area we do have a large Seventh Day Adventist population. Because they have Sabbath on Saturday people who want Sunday off from work can trade with those who want Saturday off. That Sabbath difference can work out rather nicely.

[_Maksutov]

It's quite all right for you to have funny numerical games with your religion. It's traditional. Numerology and other worldviews assign supernatural attributes to numbers. It's about as irrational as most of the rest of it. But somehow the thought of the trinity provides illumination or inspiration or comfort to some folks.

I'm not complaining about religion. Who would I complain to? God? All religious people? No, I prefer to point out things that amuse and enlighten me. My sense of humor does intrude at times.

[_Mittens]

How would the world look differently if the trinity were a unity?

Perhaps it should be remembered that the Trinity is a unity, that is the whole point of the idea.

Now Mormons sometimes (usually) think they became a unity while the rest of Christendom believes they have always been a unity. I do not see Mittens addressing this difference and as a result his quotes could reflect current Mormon belief and Baptist belief as well.

A Baptist or any other denomination would not teach this :

"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

[_huckelberry]

Mittens, I am quite sure you are correct. I do not know what point you are trying to make however. Where did you wish to go with this?

[_Mittens]

Mittens, I am quite sure you are correct. I do not know what point you are trying to make however. Where did you wish to go with this?

Mormons teach many gods, Christianity teaches ONE GOD

[_Brackite]

Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

Here is the 1830 edition of Mormon 7:7:

7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day, hath it given unto them to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which is one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/Mormonism/Mormon

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... n-1830/537

[_Maksutov]

Mittens, I am quite sure you are correct. I do not know what point you are trying to make however. Where did you wish to go with this?

Mormons teach many gods, Christianity teaches ONE GOD

What difference does this make in the world of real people?

[_Mittens]

According to Jesus that was the greatest command, that's why


Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: "

[_Maksutov]

According to Jesus that was the greatest command, that's why


Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: "

And I repeat:
What difference does this make in the world of real people?