Our brains are predisposed to think of things in linear terms, because that is how we are experiencing our current existence - our lifespan is linear. It has a start, and it has an end. Thinking about a concept of existence that isn't linear is very very difficult.
The linear-God is where Joseph Smith screwed up in thinking that the heavens and heavenly structure and order is based on linear sequence that operates withing the realms of time. Smith's concept of the gods operates within a linear realm. He said that God has a Father and so on and so on. That is linear! The concept of fathers and sons is an earthly mortal experience within the realms of time but Smith thought to apply it to God and the heavens. Smith was thinking entirely within terms of all things being linear in which a father has a son and he has a son and so on forever. In reverse, the father has a father and he has a father and so on forever. That is linear and is an earthly concept and order that works within the framework of time wherein we first are born and then finally die. So, who was the very first father? The question is flawed because the answer is impossible!
The Mormon God is a manmade concept conceived by a man who thought there was a King's name written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3.
Our brains most certainly determine our "personality" has humans. Brain injuries, seriously drunkeness, hallucinogenic drugs, etc., will convince anyone of that. Of just contemplating how one's personality developed from young childhood to whatever shapes it's in now. However...
On that basis "you" are eternal.
Consciousness is another matter. The way I see it, consciousness is the Real Me, the Primary Fact of My Existence, is temporarily chained to a brain which determines the experience. Kinda like a roller coaster ride, except during the ride we have amnesia regarding who we Really Are.
Enjoy the ride.
In my experience, people come in two flavors: those who understand what I just said and see the reality, and those who don't. This makes me suspicious. But in not a way you might suspect if you're one who hasn't come to see it.
Seriously, I have to hand it to the kid that came right up against Infinite Regress at a young age with no coaching.
??? Didn't we all ask "Who was the first father" when we were kids? I know I did.
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"Clarity from Mormon God only comes in very critical instances like convincing Emma that Joseph needed to sleep with other women."
--drumdude, 02-28-2026
Seriously, I have to hand it to the kid that came right up against Infinite Regress at a young age with no coaching.
??? Didn't we all ask "Who was the first father" when we were kids? I know I did.
Apostle Wilford Woodruff recorded one of the last theological discourses given by the prophet concerning the origin of God and man in which Smith pondered how God came to be within the framework of plural god doctrine. The question of who was the first father is not raised and we are left with an endless hole in Smith's plural god theory that remains unanswered by the Church to this very day.
Joseph Smith Smith, April 1844 wrote:I am dwelling on the immutibility of the spirit of man, is it logic to say the spirit of man had a begining & yet had no end, it does not have a begining or end, my ring is like the exhistanc of man it has no begining or end, if cut into their would be a begining & end, so with man if it had a begining it will have an end, if I am right I might say God never had power to create the spirit of man, God himself could not create himself. Intelligence is Eternal & it is self exhisting...
Smith at the very least admitted that God couldn't create himself as an intelligence that has always existed but he's left with the end result that God was made (ordained) a god by his father as was his father by his father, and so on. This linear progressive work of making gods is at the heart of Mormonism. But it's utter BS and the Church today refuses to address it.
Consciousness is another matter. The way I see it, consciousness is the Real Me, the Primary Fact of My Existence, is temporarily chained to a brain which determines the experience. Kinda like a roller coaster ride, except during the ride we have amnesia regarding who we Really Are.
Enjoy the ride.
That certainly resonates with me and I'm enjoying the ride in a state of awareness, being, in a constant state of discovery. I have found the best way to achieve what I want in life is getting rid of the ego. It's a process, however, and not a one-time event. Consciousness is what we are and we have incarnated into these fleshy bodies with a short life span on this earth to play all kinds of games and learn about life here on this beautiful and interesting planet. I believe in all kinds of quantum realities -- an endless array of possibilities! We are as old as the stars!
Our brains most certainly determine our "personality" has humans. Brain injuries, seriously drunkeness, hallucinogenic drugs, etc., will convince anyone of that. Of just contemplating how one's personality developed from young childhood to whatever shapes it's in now. However...
As I understand it it's a complex mix of nature and nature that determines a person's 'personality', not the brain. The brain is the command centre that uses your 'personality' as its guide for what signals to send, where.
On that basis "you" are eternal.
Consciousness is another matter. The way I see it, consciousness is the Real Me, the Primary Fact of My Existence, is temporarily chained to a brain which determines the experience. Kinda like a roller coaster ride, except during the ride we have amnesia regarding who we Really Are.
Consciousness is the web of patterns of electronic interactions within your brain. The atoms that make up your brain existed before they were amalgamated into the shape that is "you". They will continue to exist once the shape that is "you" is broken down into it's constituent atomic parts, and they will be reused to form other shapes and forms that may well be organic, or may not be organic. The thing that goes missing is the patterns of electronic interactions between the atoms that have been moulded into the shape of your brain. Atoms do not have a "memory" and so do not retain any information about "you". You are just one manifestation of a group of eternal atoms, which collectively form the material of the universe. We are all part of that big box of atoms.
Enjoy the ride.
In my experience, people come in two flavors: those who understand what I just said and see the reality, and those who don't. This makes me suspicious. But in not a way you might suspect if you're one who hasn't come to see it.
Everybody thinks they're right I guess. In fact we are probably all wrong But yes, enjoy the ride, because it does end.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Seriously, I have to hand it to the kid that came right up against Infinite Regress at a young age with no coaching.
??? Didn't we all ask "Who was the first father" when we were kids? I know I did.
Fair enough. Personally, I wasn't born into Mormonism, and I had encountered the "turtles all the way down" idea long before joining Mormonism, so I'm not sure what I would have done as a young kid with regard to "first father" or "no first father." Point is, as smart as Joseph Smith apparently was, he didn't seem to apprehend the difficulty when he was uttering the King Follet sermon. Nothing in his history indicates he ever did, or that he clarified the model.
Consciousness is another matter. The way I see it, consciousness is the Real Me, the Primary Fact of My Existence, is temporarily chained to a brain which determines the experience. Kinda like a roller coaster ride, except during the ride we have amnesia regarding who we Really Are.
Enjoy the ride.
That certainly resonates with me and I'm enjoying the ride in a state of awareness, being, in a constant state of discovery. I have found the best way to achieve what I want in life is getting rid of the ego. It's a process, however, and not a one-time event. Consciousness is what we are and we have incarnated into these fleshy bodies with a short life span on this earth to play all kinds of games and learn about life here on this beautiful and interesting planet. I believe in all kinds of quantum realities -- an endless array of possibilities! We are as old as the stars!
The very question is antichrist and denies the existence of the supreme Trinitarian God as expressed in the Bible. Joseph Smith was a Christian heretic and his Mormonism took Christianity and turned it on its head. Mormons today are biblical heretics.
John NIV 14:8-10 wrote:Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is inme?
So, in retrospect, the teaching of Christ through what is considered an authentic teaching of St John shows that the Father and Son are in divinity as One God manifested as two Persons. Never mind Smith's teachings of the Father having a Father because the Bible never said that! Smith misinterpreted the concept of a Trinitarian God in thinking that because Christ has a God then so also does the Father. But we learn that not only did Christ have a God but he was also God, just as his Father is God and also has a God which is HIMSELF!
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Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
But yes, enjoy the ride, because it does end.