Stay Strong Saints

[_Drifting]

Sometime during Henry’s courtship of Zina, Joseph Smith explained to Zina the “principle of plural marriage” and asked her to become one of his wives. Zina remembers the conflict she felt about Joseph’s proposal, and her budding relationship with Henry: “O dear Heaven, grant me wisdom! Help me to know the way. O Lord, my god, let thy will be done and with thine arm around about to guide, shield and direct...” Zina declined Joseph’s proposal and chose to marry Henry. They were married on March 7, 1841.

Zina later wrote, that within months of her marriage to Henry, “[Joseph] sent word to me by my brother, saying, ‘Tell Zina, I put it off and put it off till an angel with a drawn sword stood by me and told me if I did not establish that principle upon the earth I would lose my position and my life’”. Joseph further explained that, “the Lord had made it known to him she was to be his celestial wife.”

Zina chose to obey this commandment and married Joseph on October 27. She later recalled, “When I heard that God had revealed the law of celestial marriag...I obtained a testimony for myself that God had required that order to be established in this church...I made a greater sacrifise than to give my life for I never anticipated again to be looked upon as an honerable woman by those I dearly loved...”. Zina continued, “It was something too sacred to be talked about; it was more to me than life or death. I never breathed it for years”.

Zina’s first husband, Henry, was aware of this wedding and they continued to live in the same home. He believed that “whatever the Prophet did was right, without making the wisdom of God’s authorities bend to the reasoning of any man.” Over the next few years, Henry was sent on several missions to Chicago, Western New York and Tennessee. Henry missed his family and wrote home often. One of Henry’s missionary companions, John D. Lee, said, “Jacobs was bragging about his wife and two children, what a true, virtuous, lovely woman she was. He almost worshiped her...”.

Shortly after Joseph Smith’s death in 1844, Zina married Brigham Young. In May of 1846, Henry was sent on a mission to England. In Henry’s absence, Zina began to live openly as Brigham’s wife and remained so throughout her life in Utah. Henry seemed to struggle with this arrangement and later wrote to Zina, “...the same affection is there...But I feel alone...I do not Blame Eny person...may the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham...all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph.”

[_Themis]

I think you are also misinterpreting what the vow (to the Lord) means. but we can discuss this all more later, friend. Take care!

I am looking forward to you responding and referencing and quoting...

Unfortunately that is not going to happen. I know he would if it existed, but it doesn't. The problem I have found in reading many apologetic articles is lack of evidence to back up a desired interpretations. It does not matter to many who just want someone to tell them what they want to hear. Joseph was not known for keeping his own rules, but to know this you have to go beyond Sunday school and institute church history which is not that accurate anyways.

So far we see no evidence that Joseph or others considered the marriages to married women marriages in the afterlife only. We do see evidence for the opposite. Now only Joseph and BY did this. We have not even got into the problems of Joseph lying and going behind these other men's back, or his other manipulative behavior. I find it unfortunate that many always go to "we don't know" when confronted with with unconformable facts.

[_Themis]

Sometime during Henry’s courtship of Zina, Joseph Smith explained to Zina the “principle of plural marriage” and asked her to become one of his wives. Zina remembers the conflict she felt about Joseph’s proposal, and her budding relationship with Henry: “O dear Heaven, grant me wisdom! Help me to know the way. O Lord, my god, let thy will be done and with thine arm around about to guide, shield and direct...” Zina declined Joseph’s proposal and chose to marry Henry. They were married on March 7, 1841.

Zina later wrote, that within months of her marriage to Henry, “[Joseph] sent word to me by my brother, saying, ‘Tell Zina, I put it off and put it off till an angel with a drawn sword stood by me and told me if I did not establish that principle upon the earth I would lose my position and my life’”. Joseph further explained that, “the Lord had made it known to him she was to be his celestial wife.”

Zina chose to obey this commandment and married Joseph on October 27. She later recalled, “When I heard that God had revealed the law of celestial marriag...I obtained a testimony for myself that God had required that order to be established in this church...I made a greater sacrifise than to give my life for I never anticipated again to be looked upon as an honerable woman by those I dearly loved...”. Zina continued, “It was something too sacred to be talked about; it was more to me than life or death. I never breathed it for years”.

Zina’s first husband, Henry, was aware of this wedding and they continued to live in the same home. He believed that “whatever the Prophet did was right, without making the wisdom of God’s authorities bend to the reasoning of any man.” Over the next few years, Henry was sent on several missions to Chicago, Western New York and Tennessee. Henry missed his family and wrote home often. One of Henry’s missionary companions, John D. Lee, said, “Jacobs was bragging about his wife and two children, what a true, virtuous, lovely woman she was. He almost worshiped her...”.

Shortly after Joseph Smith’s death in 1844, Zina married Brigham Young. In May of 1846, Henry was sent on a mission to England. In Henry’s absence, Zina began to live openly as Brigham’s wife and remained so throughout her life in Utah. Henry seemed to struggle with this arrangement and later wrote to Zina, “...the same affection is there...But I feel alone...I do not Blame Eny person...may the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham...all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph.”

I have been hinting at this for some time in this thread and what it means.

[_Drifting]

Unfortunately that is not going to happen. I know he would if it existed, but it doesn't. The problem I have found in reading many apologetic articles is lack of evidence to back up a desired interpretations. It does not matter to many who just want someone to tell them what they want to hear. Joseph was not known for keeping his own rules, but to know this you have to go beyond Sunday school and institute church history which is not that accurate anyways.

So far we see no evidence that Joseph or others considered the marriages to married women marriages in the afterlife only. We do see evidence for the opposite. Now only Joseph and BY did this. We have not even got into the problems of Joseph lying and going behind these other men's back, or his other manipulative behavior. I find it unfortunate that many always go to "we don't know" when confronted with with unconformable facts.

You are quite correct of course.
If our friend gdemetz had any evidence supporting what he wishes to believe it would have made an appearance on this thread a long time ago.
But don't be too hard on him. Most new posters of the believing variety come here with an in built expectation that they can teach the critics a thing or two about Mormonism. It comes as a bit of a shock when they are asked to back up their opinions with real data and evidence and facts. It's even more of a shock when they see the critics are far more knowledgeable than they and use LDS scripture and teachings to support the criticisms.

[_Themis]

Of course, I can see why you don't! As I stated before, these were marriages for the afterlife, not for this one, and consequently there was no intimacy in those. That's why there were no children. Emma's case was different. It was for this life as well as the hereafter, and that is why they produced children. It's that simple!

There are candidate children for some of his other wives. Also abortion was brought up by at least one source. Here is an interesting link

http://runtu.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/sexuality-in-joseph-smiths-marriages/

[_gdemetz]

From what I have read, all the possible DNA evidence is not in yet. I'm still trusting that, if and when it does, it will be favorable to Joseph.

[_Drifting]

From what I have read, all the possible DNA evidence is not in yet. I'm still trusting that, if and when it does, it will be favorable to Joseph.

Favourable in what way?

That it shows he had children with women other than Emma? Or
That it shows that he disobeyed a direct order from God about the specific purpose of polygamy?

[_Themis]

From what I have read, all the possible DNA evidence is not in yet. I'm still trusting that, if and when it does, it will be favorable to Joseph.

Favourable in what way?

That it shows he had children with women other than Emma? Or
That it shows that he disobeyed a direct order from God about the specific purpose of polygamy?

gd wants to believe Joseph did not have sex with the married ones as though that makes it all better. The problem for him is he has already lost. BY did have sex and have children with Zina. This shows he did not view them the way gd hoped that they were, but for some reason it seems easier to accept BY did it, but not Joseph. Some may not realize that Joseph lied to so many. Not just the outside world, but to his own religious community. His own wife Emma. To all the men he didn't tell he was marrying their wife's. In many cases he was manipulative and threatened the ones who wouldn't marry them to keep quiet. Why does God need Joseph to marry so many. In the end it doesn't fit, but I do understand those that need to believe more then need the truth, and need to go with the implausible.

[_gdemetz]

Brigham Young was married to Zina in this life, and Joseph Smith was not. You guys keep accusing Joseph Smith of infidelity as if you lived in his days and were constantly with him. You are the ones lacking proof. If he was so very unfaithful, as you claim, then why isn't there any evidence from any reputable source of a child by him?!?

[_SteelHead]

I already supplied a theory for this. Search the site for MOA.