Chap wrote:Will Schryver:
I don’t recall ever actually reading where Joseph Smith claimed he could translate Egyptian. I may be mistaken, but I don’t recall ever seeing such a thing. Perhaps you could dig it up for our mutual benefit.
See
http://www.boap.org/LDS/History/History ... rch/Vol_II.
On the 3rd of July, Michael H. Chandler came to Kirtland to exhibit
some Egyptian mummies. There were four human figures, together with some
two or more rolls of papyrus covered with hieroglyphic figures and
devices. As Mr. Chandler had been told I could translate them, he brought
me some of the characters, and I gave him the interpretation, and like a
gentleman, he gave me the following certificate:
KIRTLAND, July 6, 1835. This is to make known to all who may be
desirous, concerning the knowledge of Mr. Joseph Smith, Jun., in
deciphering the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic characters in my possession,
which I have, in many eminent cities, showed to the most learned; and,
from the information that I could ever learn, or meet with, I and that of
Mr. Joseph Smith, Jun., to correspond in the most minute matters. MICHAEL
H. CHANDLER,
Traveling with, and proprietor of, Egyptian mummies.
Sunday 5.--I preached in the afternoon. Michael H. Barton tried to
get into the Church, but he was not willing to confess and forsake all his
sins--and he was rejected.
Soon after this, some of the Saints at Kirtland purchased the mummies
and papyrus, a description of which will appear hereafter, and with W. W.
Phelps and Oliver Cowdery as scribes, I commenced the translation of some
of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of
the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of
Joseph of Egypt, etc.,--a more full account of which will appear in its
place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them. Truly we can say, the Lord
is beginning to reveal the abundance of peace and truth.
If someone says, in effect "He had been told I could translate Egyptian, so he brought me some to translate, and I translated it for him", then
that sounds like a claim to be able to translate Egyptian to me.
Also this:
http://www.irr.org/mit/Books/BHOH/bhoh4.html Additional evidence shows that Joseph Smith consistently represented the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar and all the material related to it as a serious matter. A good example of this is found in a small pamphlet published in 1844 entitled The Voice of Truth.21 In it, Smith was quoted at length as he demonstrated his linguistic prowess by quoting brief phrases from seventeen different languages, in quick succession:
Were I a Chaldean I would exclaim, Keed'nauh to-me-roon lehoam elauhayauh dey - ahemayana veh aur'hau lau gnaubadoo, yabadoo ma-ar'gnau comeen tehoat sheamyauh allah (Thus shall ye say unto them: The gods that have not made the heaven and the earth, they shall perish from the earth, and from these heavens.) An Egyptian, Su-e-eh-ni (What other persons are those?) A Grecian, Diabolos basileuei (The Devil reigns.) A Frenchman, Messieurs sans Dieu (Gentlemen without God.) . . .
And on Smith goes, quoting brief clips of Turkish, German, Syrian, Spanish, Italian, Hebrew, Danish, Latin, and other languages. It is notable that the phrases Smith uses from various languages do not constitute the related thoughts of a single message, but appear to be randomly selected phrases from various dictionaries. Even the Chaldean quoted is no more than an approximate translation of the Hebrew of Jeremiah 10:11, apparently copied from Smith's Hebrew Bible. The "Egyptian" he quotes, however, comes directly from the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar, page A: Sue-e-eh-ni "What other person is that? Who?"22
Of course, a skeptic might question whether Joseph Smith actually uttered such strange words. Did he really write or talk in this manner?
Yes, the evidence shows that he definitely did. On November 13, 1843, Smith wrote a letter that appeared in the newspaper Times and Seasons (of which he had served as editor) which stated in part:
Were I an Egyptian, I would exclaim Jah-oh-eh, Enish-go-on-dosh, Flo-ees-Flos-is-is; [O the earth! the power of attraction, and the moon passing between her and the sun.]
These words were taken directly from pages 29 and 30 of the Grammar material:
Jah-oh-eh: The earth under the government of another or the second of the fixed stars, which is called Enish-go-on-dosh or in other words the power of attra[c]tion it has with the earth. Flo-ees: The moon -- signifying its revolutions, also going between, thereby forming an eclipse. Flos-is-is: The sun in its affinity with Earth and moon -- signifying their revolutions showing the power the one has with the other.23
It is also interesting that the words Jah-oh-eh, Enish-go-on-dosh, Floeese, and Kli-flos-is-is occur in the "Explanation" of Facsimile No. 2 in the Book of Abraham (see p. 103 of this book).
So according to Joseph Smith, this is Egyptian:
Su-e-eh-ni
And he tells us it means:
What other persons are those?
This is Egyptian too:
Jah-oh-eh, Enish-go-on-dosh, Flo-ees-Flos-is-is
And according to Joseph Smith it means:
O the earth! the power of attraction, and the moon passing between her and the sun.
Doing a translation of an alleged bit of Egyptian in print surely amounts to a claim to be able to do it, no? (For the present purpose I leave aside the question of whether Joseph Smith's words here are real Egyptian or not.)
Will Schryver:
Even so, I entirely concur with the consensus opinion in the matter: Joseph Smith could not translate Egyptian. At least not as I understand the term “translation.”
You're right. He couldn't translate Egyptian. But he certainly was happy for people to think that he could. and indeed wrote things that could have had no other object than to give that impression.