Standing up together to Make a Change within Mormonism.

[_Kevin Graham]

I want to go on the public record as strongly opposing any church or movement of any kind in which the dominant -- or even prominent -- emotions are fear, shame, and guilt, and which is based upon indoctrination.

Rofl!

Oh the irony...

Mormons are driven to obey the multiplicity of commandments precisely because of the shame, fear, guilt and indoctrination by the LDS Church.

Just about every Mormon woman I know living in Utah is on anti-depressant drugs. It is a sad way to live life. Gay Mormons have it even rougher than they.

[_moksha]

Don't expect to be able to reform Mormonism through any kind of grass roots effort. It simply will not work.

The slow inexorable process of change will occur regardless of any efforts to hinder it. What is hard to know, is if inevitable change can be hastened any more than the extent to which it can be postponed.

[_Buffalo]

I want to go on the public record as strongly opposing any church or movement of any kind in which the dominant -- or even prominent -- emotions are fear, shame, and guilt, and which is based upon indoctrination.

Rofl!

Oh the irony...

Mormons are driven to obey the multiplicity of commandments precisely because of the shame, fear, guilt and indoctrination by the LDS Church.

Just about every Mormon woman I know living in Utah is on anti-depressant drugs. It is a sad way to live life. Gay Mormons have it even rougher than they.

John 7: 16-17

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Mormon doctrine has been tested in like manner by those who live it. Unfortunately, the results are less than encouraging:

[_ShadowFax]

Don't expect to be able to reform Mormonism through any kind of grass roots effort. It simply will not work.

The slow inexorable process of change will occur regardless of any efforts to hinder it. What is hard to know, is if inevitable change can be hastened any more than the extent to which it can be postponed.

Moksha, you have quite a poetic way with words.

Kishkumen, how do you know if it will not work?
Have you tried it on a very large and grand scale to find out?
I may have missed reading your story.
It certainly won't work if people are frozen within the mo web of secrecy or non-action.
example, If women had that kind of non-action attitude we'd never have gotten the vote and society wouldn't be as egalitarian as it is today. We'd still be essentially chattel. Thanks to 33 brave and courageous suffragettes, and the rest of the population who backed them, the tides changed. They had a plan and they worked it.

http://www.suite101.com/content/woodrow ... nt-a192861

[_LDS truthseeker]

I think the opportunity will be if Romney can get to a runoff for the presidency or if miracles of miracles, he were to become president.

The media attention on the church would be great and the truth would come out. People (outside of LDS) might actually be interested in hearing why it's a fraud - Book of Abraham, etc.

[_Roger Morrison]

Complements to those posting from April 13, who stayed on topic. Well thought out and articulated without malice or nastiness.
They say, "time heals all things." Not always a fast heal -- the quick-fix. But time will eventually heal Mormonism, as it will the other festering Christian sects; and all religions based on faith in an imagined deity.
Romney will first have to heal himself before he can really be instrumental in the big picture of world order and truth. Which to this time is not demonstrated by Mormon Leaders nor by the Church they represent. At this time, truth is not their message. . .
Warm regards to all.
Roger M.

[_Markk]

I think the opportunity will be if Romney can get to a runoff for the presidency or if miracles of miracles, he were to become president.

The media attention on the church would be great and the truth would come out. People (outside of LDS) might actually be interested in hearing why it's a fraud - Book of Abraham, etc.

Just wait until Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson get a hold of some of BY and others quotes?

[_Themis]

I want to go on the public record as strongly opposing any church or movement of any kind in which the dominant -- or even prominent -- emotions are fear, shame, and guilt, and which is based upon indoctrination.

Rofl!

Oh the irony...

Mormons are driven to obey the multiplicity of commandments precisely because of the shame, fear, guilt and indoctrination by the LDS Church.

Just about every Mormon woman I know living in Utah is on anti-depressant drugs. It is a sad way to live life. Gay Mormons have it even rougher than they.

It's one of the main tools for many religions, especially the LDS. What do we think the Little factory talks are about.

[_Themis]

I think the opportunity will be if Romney can get to a runoff for the presidency or if miracles of miracles, he were to become president.

The media attention on the church would be great and the truth would come out. People (outside of LDS) might actually be interested in hearing why it's a fraud - Book of Abraham, etc.

Just wait until Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson get a hold of some of BY and others quotes?

The real damage from this will be to the active membership of the church. People outside will be less inclined to join except for a few oddities. It will be just a weird curiosity.

[_ShadowFax]

I think the opportunity will be if Romney can get to a runoff for the presidency or if miracles of miracles, he were to become president.

The media attention on the church would be great and the truth would come out. People (outside of LDS) might actually be interested in hearing why it's a fraud - Book of Abraham, etc.

Just wait until Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson get a hold of some of BY and others quotes?

The real damage from this will be to the active membership of the church. People outside will be less inclined to join except for a few oddities. It will be just a weird curiosity.

In this situation I appear to be more of a half-full kinda thinker.

Rather than 'real' damage to active membership I see it as providing some real "unifying" help for families who are affected by people who have 'lost the tbm testimony' and who are compromised as a result of the way the current system operates - or by people who have to live/work in the Mormon myth environment.

I compare it to when I was a kid and found out that Santa Clause wasn't real and wasn't flying through the sky bringing me gifts. My friends and I discovered the reality and viewed it in hindsight more as a rite of passage. We left a childhood mindset and became embraced as members of a more adult one. This didn't mean that I stop celebrating with my stockings hung, the Santa Pictures on cards, and delightful songs of Santa. I still enjoy all the celebrations that unite a community together in festivity, but the difference is that I don't believe it's true.
The good aspects of festivities and myth are still there without the wool being pulled over my eyes.

I also don't agree with some others that claim that exposing the various falsehoods and frauds behind Mormonism would do away with the good aspects of it. I think it would shift focus and change. I don't know how anything that promotes truth could be considered a bad thing. It might be an adjustment, but how could it possibly be worse than listening to various people (like the man in the o.p., or my own self who lives in a Mormon environment with some challenge.)

I can't see a downside to asking for ethical upfront behavior from the apostles in this matter. Many questioning or postmo's avoid the thought of taking action to Make a Stand as if it were a new plague. but, not me.
I'm sure Packer prays he's dead before people actually grow some strength and courage and stop ignoring it.