grindael wrote:Seems like that is what you are doing coming here and bashing Fundamentalists now, doesn't it?
No, just criticizing their methodologies. If you want to defend them I'm more than happy to engage your case. I have never been anything but happy to engage anyone's argument, as I have proven over and over.
Because it's an utterly irrelevant dodge of what I pointed out, namely that Christ lists a series of events, culminating in his second coming, and then states unequivocally that "all these things" would happen during the lifetimes of those standing there next to him.
It is not. It is a legitimate way to look at what he said in the context of how it was presented. There is an extra question in Matthew that does not appear in any of the other accounts. That answers it. You don't have to believe it, (obviously you don't since you said Jesus is a liar), but that's ok, I don't beleive that. Keep on toutin' that straw man if it makes you feel good.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.
grindael wrote:Of course, they don't. I've shown why. You have not.
I've addressed your concerns. You've ignored mine. Unless you can show that "all these things" does not include the second coming as described in Matt 24:29-31, then it simply does not matter at all how many questions he was answering or what those questions were. The entire point is that "all these things" were said by Jesus in the gospels to take place before the then-current generation passed away. Vv. 29-31 are unquestionably included in "all these things," meaning the gospels have Jesus prophesy that his second coming would occur during the lifetimes of those standing with him. It's as simple as that, and you have no answer for it.
grindael wrote:Seems like that is what you are doing coming here and bashing Fundamentalists now, doesn't it?
No, just criticizing their methodologies. If you want to defend them I'm more than happy to engage your case. I have never been anything but happy to engage anyone's argument, as I have proven over and over.
Right. You said they called Jesus a liar. That is not what they believe. So you have that wrong. Well, start engaging my argument about Matthew 24.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.
grindael wrote:Of course, they don't. I've shown why. You have not.
I've addressed your concerns. You've ignored mine. Unless you can show that "all these things" does not include the second coming as described in Matt 24:29-31, then it simply does not matter at all how many questions he was answering or what those questions were. The entire point is that "all these things" were said by Jesus in the gospels to take place before the then-current generation passed away. Vv. 29-31 are unquestionably included in "all these things," meaning the gospels have Jesus prophesy that his second coming would occur during the lifetimes of those standing with him. It's as simple as that, and you have no answer for it.
I did show it. You are ignoring what I said with a blanket statement, with absolutely no proof. Try again. You said Jesus was a liar. That does not show him to be a liar. Straw man.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.
grindael wrote:It is not. It is a legitimate way to look at what he said in the context of how it was presented.
So tell me how it invalidates the observation that Jesus included his second coming in "all these things" that were to take place before those standing with him died. I acknowledge that you've presented a specific exegesis of these questions. Their relevance to my concern has not been fleshed out. You've simply asserted that there is a relevance. Now you have to support it.
grindael wrote:There is an extra question in Matthew that does not appear in any of the other accounts. That answers it.
This is just an assertion. Tell me how it answers it.
grindael wrote:You don't have to believe it, (obviously you don't since you said Jesus is a liar), but that's ok, I don't beleive that. Keep on toutin' that straw man if it makes you feel good.
Please link me to the post and I will address it in full.
grindael wrote:You are ignoring what I said with a blanket statement, with absolutely no proof. Try again. You said Jesus was a liar. That does not show him to be a liar. Straw man.
You're putting words in my mouth after I've repeatedly explained exactly what I meant. I don't appreciate that.
So tell me how it invalidates the observation that Jesus included his second coming in "all these things" that were to take place before those standing with him died. I acknowledge that you've presented a specific exegesis of these questions. Their relevance to my concern has not been fleshed out. You've simply asserted that there is a relevance. Now you have to support it.
I did. Go reread it. I'm waiting for you to give me specifics. All I have from you is an assertion.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.
Please link me to the post and I will address it in full.
grindael wrote:You are ignoring what I said with a blanket statement, with absolutely no proof. Try again. You said Jesus was a liar. That does not show him to be a liar. Straw man.
You're putting words in my mouth after I've repeatedly explained exactly what I meant. I don't appreciate that.
You said the words, not me. I quoted them. Want to see them again?
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.