Is the Internet Confounding the Revision of History

[_GoodK]

To be clear, Sorenson's book is not an answer to anything May has said. It is not a review. It is a book, the first book published jointly by FARMS and Deseret books.

I can't read it for you my friend, all I can do is urge you, as an atheist, to familiarize yourself better with the scholarship that is being ignored by people like Vernal Holly and Wayne May.

It's less than $20 bucks: http://www.amazon.com/ancient-American- ... 1573451576

Hope you don't think me too stubborn. I hope you will understand, I grew up in a church that did its best to demonstrated that the Book of Mormon narrative takes place in Central America.

I think that you are not interested in challenging what you have already decided to be true.

I spoke with my step father, who writes for FARMS and is a close friend of DCP, and he had no clue who Wayne May was (hmmm...) but as we examined his Youtube video and articles, as well as they map you used he simply laughed and handed me Sorenson's book. I only read chapter 1, because I thought he was joking, but it is true. If you read it, you would see how wrong this theory of May's which you have championed, really is.

There is no reason why you shouldn't go read this book yourself, unless you don't want to find out how wrong (and unoriginal) May's claims are.

But as Charity said... it really isn't as important to know precisely where the event took place, than it is to benefit from the words in the book. Just as I don't have to know exactly where Jesus was born, or exactly where his cross stood, in order to benefit from His love and teachings. :)

Then why is it necessary for May to tour the country and teach this, if all that matters are the words?

[Guest]

Ok, I will buy it and read it. :)

I know you don't know me at all. But I'm not at all uneducated or unintelligent in regards to the theories and evidences provided. Remember, I have spent most of my life (and I am now 39) reading and hearing about all the theories and evidences of Central America, not only from RLDS but LDS sources.

I watched the rest of that Wayne May video on YouTube and noticed it doesn't really show anything much. Whatever you have seen or heard isn't a thousandth part of the fascinating evidences you would have the opportunity to examine, if you were to go to a conference where he presented his whole body of evidence. I think it would seriously cause you to reconsider your current stance. :)

Proverbs 18:13 says He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
;-)

Was that an intentional slam using the Bible? YEP... but meant as a friendly slap, done in jest.
But I'll use it as a launching pad to express the following: I wouldn't totally dismiss it outright until you get the opportunity to hear or fully check out his material. Keep your eyes peeled and maybe you will hear of an opportunity to go see him sometime. I believe he lives in Utah.

Take care!

[_GoodK]

Ok, I will buy it and read it. :)

And who's to say you can't return it and get a refund after your done?


:)

[_hopeofzion]

check out my reply above... I edited it, and added considerably more while you were replying. heheheh
I snuck it in. Don't get mad at me! ;-)

[_GoodK]

check out my reply above... I edited it, and added considerably more while you were replying. heheheh
I snuck it in. Don't get mad at me! ;-)

All I will say is you should know who Sorenson is if you are at all familiar with this topic.

I'll probably never have the chance to come see May in Utah, but if you think there is something unique about his argument that I can learn online, please do share it with me.
But I'm pretty sure once you find Sorenson's book you will understand that the only sensible place for the Book of Mormon setting is Central America.

[_hopeofzion]

All I will say is you should know who Sorenson is if you are at all familiar with this topic.

I am somewhat familiar with Sorenson. I have read something from him a time or two online. He is often quoted by others, especially Mormon friends of mine. I have also read plenty of articles from FARMS.

But of course, most of my experiences are with RLDS Book of Mormon research groups, or individuals from an RLDS background who have devoted their lives to this sort of work.

I saw that Wayne May is about to release a new DVD. I think I'll buy that. If you have the resources, you might consider doing the same. You seem like a person who is open to new ideas or possibilities.

[_GoodK]

Ok, I will buy it and read it. :)

I know you don't know me at all. But I'm not at all uneducated or unintelligent in regards to the theories and evidences provided. Remember, I have spent most of my life (and I am now 39) reading and hearing about all the theories and evidences of Central America, not only from RLDS but LDS sources.

I watched the rest of that Wayne May video on YouTube and noticed it doesn't really show anything much. Whatever you have seen or heard isn't a thousandth part of the fascinating evidences you would have the opportunity to examine, if you were to go to a conference where he presented his whole body of evidence. I think it would seriously cause you to reconsider your current stance. :)

Proverbs 18:13 says He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
;-)


Was that an intentional slam using the Bible? YEP... but meant as a friendly slap, done in jest.
But I'll use it as a launching pad to express the following: I wouldn't totally dismiss it outright until you get the opportunity to hear or fully check out his material. Keep your eyes peeled and maybe you will hear of an opportunity to go see him sometime. I believe he lives in Utah.

Take care!

Cute, but somewhat inconsistent. I mean, considering that you "know" for a fact Wayne May is correct, yet are unfamiliar with the most authoritative book by the most authoritative scholar on the subject, seems like you may have answerethed the matter before hearething it completely.

And since May isn't making any new arguments, I will say that I have heard his argument completely.

I think I pointed out confirmation biases at the beginning of the post, thank you for bringing us back to that. While you certainly have the right to ignore conflicting ideas, it does not mean they do not exist, nor does it mean that all the scholarship done in this field is equal. It is obviously not, especially in the case of Wayne May.

Truth is, one does not need to read everything Wayne May writes to know his presumptions are bogus (and unoriginal). For example, I assume you and I are similar in that we do not take anything L. Ron Hubbard said regarding the origins of man too seriously. Have you read Dianetics? I have not, yet I feel perfectly fine rejecting stories about Lord Xenu and theton levels.

Perhaps if Mr. May was as convincing to others as he is to you, he would have made a little bit more of an impact on the internet or in the scholarly community. And perhaps if you could find me something compelling that he has produced (that is available for consumption, the power point presentations he does in the Relief Society room at RLDS churches don't count), or if the articles he does have online resembled scholarly work (i.e included references) I would be more inclined to take him and your testimony of him more seriously.

[_hopeofzion]

Cute, but somewhat inconsistent. I mean, considering that you "know" for a fact Wayne May is correct, yet are unfamiliar with the most authoritative book by the most authoritative scholar on the subject, seems like you may have answerethed the matter before hearething it completely.

You mean the most authoritative book by the most authoritative scholar in the LDS world. I know this is something most Mormons are fairly ignorant of (not stupid, ignorant) that there are many other Churches out there that trace their roots to Joseph Smith, but did not go out west with Brigham Young. They have their own authoritative scholars, books and research.

And since May isn't making any new arguments, I will say that I have heard his argument completely.

How do you know? You haven't heard what he has to say. There may be others who have proposed North America, but you haven't heard what Wayne May has to say about it, nor seen his evidence.

I think I pointed out confirmation biases at the beginning of the post, thank you for bringing us back to that. While you certainly have the right to ignore conflicting ideas, it does not mean they do not exist, nor does it mean that all the scholarship done in this field is equal. It is obviously not, especially in the case of Wayne May.

I don't believe you are qualified to make that judgment. Suffice it to say you have your own biases. :)

Truth is, one does not need to read everything Wayne May writes to know his presumptions are bogus (and unoriginal).

Hey, I said I'd purchase and read the book you recommend. But you can't do the same? What's the matter Colonel Sanders? Chicken? ...afraid you might be wrong, or you might like what Wayne May has to say? heheheh

Perhaps if Mr. May was as convincing to others as he is to you, he would have made a little bit more of an impact on the internet or in the scholarly community.

Oh, so because he isn't upheld or loudly proclaimed by more official LDS sources, it can't be worth much, eh? The world is a whole lot bigger than the LDS and its sources...and it isn't always the loudest or most widely published voices that carry truth.

[_GoodK]

You mean the most authoritative book by the most authoritative scholar in the LDS world. I know this is something most Mormons are fairly ignorant of (not stupid, ignorant) that there are many other Churches out there that trace their roots to Joseph Smith, but did not go out west with Brigham Young. They have their own authoritative scholars, books and research.

No I don't mean the most authoritative scholar in the LDS world. I mean the most authoritative scholar on the subject. Being LDS is besides the point, especially in this field. This is hardly disputable.

How do you know? You haven't heard what he has to say. There may be others who have proposed North America, but you haven't heard what Wayne May has to say about it, nor seen his evidence.

It's his job to present evidence friend, or do you have this whole thing backwards? I have seen everything available that he has online. I can't help it if he can't get his stuff out there to the real world and is confined to RLDS conference rooms.

Hey, I said I'd purchase and read the book you recommend. But you can't do the same?

I'd love to, if he had a book to buy. You've had plenty of chances to share some evidence, links, or anything to substantiate the combination of letters and words you put forth here. So far, your recommendation involves me traveling from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City Airport, probably to some county south of Springville, and sitting in on a powerpoint presentation. Obviously our idea of "scholarship" is quite different. But then again, I have yet to have God tell me of this man's wisdom. Maybe when that happens, I'll be as in love with what Wayne May has to say as you are:).

Perhaps if Mr. May was as convincing to others as he is to you, he would have made a little bit more of an impact on the internet or in the scholarly community.

Oh, so because he isn't upheld or loudly proclaimed by more official LDS sources, it can't be worth much, eh? The world is a whole lot bigger than the LDS and its sources...and it isn't always the loudest or most widely published voices that carry truth.

No, it's because he doesn't even include a single reference on the few articles he has posted on his website which, I'm not sure if you know this, is a red flag in the scholarly community. It is also because he can't seem to find a bigger forum to speak to than a spin-off church that already supports his thesis. There are plenty of non-LDS people that make an impact in the scholarly community.

I think it's about time for any of the following before continuing:

1. educate yourself on the scholarship out there, specifically John Sorenson's 1985 book.
2. provide a more compelling argument then: The holy spirit witnessed to me that Wayne May was telling the truth
3. Do more than just say, you'll have to see him in person.

Otherwise, you are doing the internet discussion board equivalant of just flapping your gums.

Cheers - GOODK

[_hopeofzion]

of course, you are one of those people who lives to debate, ....as I said, I'm not into it.
you are certainly free to dismiss Wayne May without checking out his books, dvd, or hearing him yourself. I can do the same to John Sorenson, if I choose to. This does not prove anything, either way, except to reveal either a stubbornness or unwillingness to investigate further. I'm not here to prove anything to you, remember? :)

Anything else you wanted to talk about?