DAN VOGEL DISCUSSES THE SPALDING/RIGDON THEORY

[_CaliforniaKid]

Brent, my data show that Mosiah had a very high occurrence of both wherefore and therefore. Then in Alma, therefore stays high but wherefore drops to almost zero. Couldn't this sudden lexical shift be due to Smith's regular interaction (starting when he came to Alma) with a source text that tended to exclude the word wherefore? Just a thought.

Ocurrences per 1k words

.....................Mos ......................Alm
therefore..... 3.944077471.........3.362292943
wherefore.....4.672897196.........0.03206567

[_Brent Metcalfe]

Hi CaliforniaKid,

I only have a quick minute, but let me encourage you to read my essay because I mitigate the very issues you’re raising (B. Metcalfe, “The Priority of Mosiah: A Prelude to Book of Mormon Exegesis,” New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, B. Metcalfe, ed. [Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1993], 395–444 [see especially 408–415, 434–37]).

For instance, the single occurrence of “wherefore” in the entire book of Mosiah was copied from KJV Exodus 20:11 (|| Mosiah 13:19; see Metcalfe, “Priority,” 411n22). So your conclusion that both therefore and wherefore appear at high rates in Mosiah, is highly problematic. (I also have severe reservations about usage of synonyms in ratio to total words as a viable method for discovering much of anything.)

Peruse my essay when you have time, and review the links that I provided here.

Now off to the gym …

My best,

Brent

[_Brent Metcalfe]

Hi Jeff,

Good to hear from you, my friend. (And thanks for the succinct reiteration of your views.)

Cheers,

Brent

[_CaliforniaKid]

Ah yes, I had forgotten the problem of shorter books giving inflated ratios. It's been a while since I collected this data. In the charts I made, 4 Ne. also throws off the gentle flow of the curve because of its length.

I read the links you offered, but haven't read the essay yet. I think I've got it on the NMS cd; I'll give it a read as soon as I get a chance.

[_Uncle Dale]

a. Rigdon was an intellectual convert -- he heard the Mormon gospel and accepted its doctrines

b. Rigdon was an emotional convert -- he read the Book of Mormon and felt a "burning in his bosom," etc.

c. Rigdon was an opportunistic convert -- he may not have agreed with all of Mormonism, but "knew a good thing."

d. Rigdon was a convert before he ever read the Book of Mormon -- Mormonism was the same as Rigdonism.

# 4 but in order to respond in greater detail I'd need time, a day at least. In essence I don't think Rigdon was a religious follower, having been thrown out of a Baptist group for having different ideas. He was opinionated and not particularly open to persuasion. His eagerness to join so quickly bascially within a day, having only read the Book of Mormon in the evening and without having spent much time in evaluation leads one to question why would he act so fast. What was his primary motivation, what were his rewards? He already had a congregation, actually I believe 2 so why give them up to another authority unless he was offered a position within the new sect. And why would he be offered a position by them so soon as they had only just presented the Book of Mormon to him. So with the speed of events being so quick, it appears it was all planned out well in advance.

This is a weak argument. First, people often converted to religions quickly and rapidly, even at times on the spot, ministers of other faiths not excluded. Even today people may convert quickly. Second, Rigdon was constantly searching for the right religion. His background with the Cambelites already demonstrated that he believed in a restoration of primitive Christianity. He pushed for that more and more with Alexander Campbell. So, one could argue that he was ripe to accept the Book of Mormon and Mormonism quickly given his prior disposition and attitudes. Rigdon seemed given to radical decisions and actions. He already lost one flock due to his changing religous views. Losing another may not have been that traumatic to him given that perhaps his quest for "truth" was paramount for him.

No doubt different investigators will come away with different opinions here. As early as 1831, Ezra Booth and other
early observers were crediting Rigdon's conversion to a visionary confirmation from God. Rigdon's latest biographer,
Richard S. Van Wagoner cites the Booth account as one of his sources, in relating Rigdon's conversion. Dr. Lloyd
A. Knowles, in his recent Rigdon dissertation, footnotes Booth but gives some parallel information from Rigdon's local
newspaper, the "Painesville Telegraph."

Sources closer to Rigdon downplay any visionary response to the book on his part, and instead focus on Rigdon's
supposed exegetical skills -- he being one of the few men who really ever understood the biblical prophecies, etc.

I will paste in some sources on Rigdon's Oct.-Nov. 1830 conversion to Mormonism, below.

If anybody is aware of more detailed or definitive sources, please let me know. I would also appreciate knowing
which of these several accounts and reports Dan Vogel accepts as "unimpeached fact."




Sidney Rigdon's Conversion -- Various pre-1880 Sources

========================

1830 Newspaper Articles "Golden Bible" and "Campbellism Improved"

Since commencing this article, we have received information, which goes to corroborate the statements made
in the communication of our correspondent, and also furnishes several additional particulars. The Elder referred
to, is the famous Campbellite leader [i.e. Sidney Rigdon], who has made so much noise on the Reserve for a
few months past. He has finally concluded to receive the new Revelation, and has actually been baptized,
(now for the third time.) "The common stock family" mentioned in the communication, is a club of Campbellites,
who have all things common. It is said that they hold their meetings till late at night, and afterwards retire
to the river, and baptize by the score. They profess to have the power of working miracles....

sir, could you but see the multitude that follow those pretended Disciples [i.e. Cowdery, etc.], and know the
number they have baptized each night, (many of whom 'tis said have now been immersed for the third time;)
were you to be informed, that a certain Elder [i.e. Rigdon] hesitated in deciding whether to reject or receive
the new Revelation, and that the "social Union," or as it is more familiarly called in its vicinity, the "common
stock family," have gone into the water again in token of embracing it.

(Hudson, Ohio: "Observer and Telegraph," I:38, Nov. 18, 1830)
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH ... htm#111830

========================

November 1830 Newspaper Article: "Delusion"

About a couple of weeks since, three men... appeared in our village, laden with a new revelation, which they claim
to be a codicil to the New Testament... conceiving they might do more good otherwheres, departed for Kirtland, where
is a "common stock family," under the charge of Elder Rigdon, a Campbellite leader of some notoriety....

Immediately after their arrival here, Elder Rigdon embraced the new doctrine and was baptised for the third time --
once as a regular Baptist, once as a Campbellite, and now as a disciple of the new revelation. He says he has
hitherto, ignorantly preached heresy. His flock, we understand, have principally followed their shepherd, and for
the second, and some for the third time, have gone down into the water. We are told that the [whole] number baptised
into the new order, is rising to one hundred.

Painesville, Ohio: "The Geauga Gazette" (prob. Nov. 16, 1830 -- text from reprints)
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH ... htm#110030


========================

Feb. 1831 Newspaper Article: "Mormonism -- or Grand Pugilistic Debate."

... a noted mountebank by the name of Elder Rigdon, who has flourished in and about the "openings," for the last
few years... Rigdon was formerly a disciple of Campbell's and who it is said was sent out to make proselytes,
but is probable he thought he should find it more advantageous to operate on his own capital, and therefore wrote,
as it is believed the Book of Mormon, and commenced his pilgrimage in the town of Kirtland, which was represented
as one of the extreme points of the Holy Land.


(Cleveland Advertiser Vol. I:5 February 15, 1831)
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH ... htm#021531

========================

Feb 1831 Matthew S. Clapp Account

About the last of October, 1830, four men, claiming to be divinely inspired... took up their
abode with the pastor of the congregation, (Sidney Rigdon,) who read their book and partly
condemned it -- but, two days afterwards, was heard to confess his conviction of its truth.
Immediately the subtlety and duplicity of these men were manifest -- as soon as they saw a
number disposed to give heed to them, then it was they bethought themselves of making a party --
then it was they declared that their book contained a new covenant, to come under which the
disciple must be re-immersed. When called upon to answer concerning their pretended covenant,
whether it was distinct from that mentioned in Hebrews VIII, 10-13, they would equivocate, and
would say, (to use their own words) "on the large scale, the covenant is the same, but in
some things it is different." Immediately they made a party -- seventeen persons were immersed
by them in one night. At this Mr. Rigdon seemed much displeased, and when they came next day to
his house, he withstood them to the face -- showed them that what they had done was entirely
without precedent in the holy scriptures -- for they had immersed those persons that they might
work miracles as well as come under the said covenant -- showed them that the apostles baptized
for the remission of sins -- but miraculous gifts were conferred by the imposition of hands.
But when pressed upon the point, they justified themselves by saying, it was on their part merely
a compliance with the solicitations of those persons. Mr. Rigdon again called upon them for proof
of the truth of their book and mission: they then related the manner in which they obtained faith,
which was by praying for a sign, and an angel was shown unto them. Here Mr. Rigdon showed them
from the scriptures the possibility of their being deceived: "For Satan himself is transformed
into an angel of light" -- but said Cowdrey, "Do you think if I should go to my Heavenly Father
with all sincerity, and pray to him in the name of Jesus Christ, that he would not show me an
angel -- that he would suffer Satan to deceive me?" Mr. Rigdon replied, "if the heavenly Father
had ever promised to show you an angel, to confirm anything, he would not suffer you to be
deceived, for, says the apostle John, 'this is the confidence we have with him, if we ask things
according to his will, he hearkens to us.' "But," he continued, "if you ask the heavenly Father
to show you an angel when he has never promised you such a thing, if the Devil never had an
opportunity of deceiving you before, you give him one now."

However, about two days after, Mr. R. was persuaded to tempt God by asking this sign, which he
knew to be contrary to his revealed will; he received a sign, and was convinced that Mormonism
was true and divine. Wherefore, to make use of his own reasoning, we presume the Devil appeared
to him in the form of an angel of light. The Monday following he was baptised.

Letter signed M. S. C. published in the Painesville newspaper
The Telegraph, n.s. II:35 (Feb. 15, 1831)
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH ... htm#021531
cf Howe, 1834 pp. 102-104
http://solomonspalding.com/docs/1834howe.htm#pg102

========================

Early 1831 Letter from the Campbellite Josiah Jones, of Kirtland

In the last part of October, 1830, four men appeared here by the names of Cowdery, Pratt, Whitmar
and Peterson; they stated they were from Palmyra, Ontario County, N. Y. with a book, which they said
contained what was engraven on gold plates... These men appeared in the town of Mentor at Elder Sidney
Rigdon's on Thursday evening about the 6th [sic - 26th?] of October last. On Sunday following the elder
with two or three of these men attended a meeting at Euclid. I also attended and here I was first
informed by I. Morley that such men and such a book had appeared. The next Wednesday evening they held a
meeting at the Methodist Meetinghouse in this place, at which time they read some in their new book,
and exhorted the people to repent of their pride and priestcraft and all other sins, and be baptized
by them for the remission of them, for they said that if they had been baptized it was of no avail,
for there was no legal administrator, neither had been for fourteen hundred years, until God had called
them to the office, and had sent them into the world to publish it to this generation. The next day we
heard that after they went home, or to the family where they put up, they baptized seventeen into the
faith which they published....

On Monday, Elder Rigdon was re-baptized, and additions have continued to be made almost daily to them
since that time. Sidney Rigdon said in private conversation that no one could tell what virtue there was
in Cowdery's hands, for when he took hold of him to baptize him he felt a shock strike through him.
They pretend to give the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands....

First known publication: in Elder Walter Scott's periodical
(Carthage, Ohio: The Evangelist IX:6,June 1, 1841)
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH ... htm#060141

========================

Dec. 1831 Ezra Booth Account

After Cowdery, and his three associates had left the state of New York, while bending their
course to the west, he was directed by the spirit to Kirtland, for the special purpose of
enlisting Rigdon in the Mormonite cause. I have since learned, that the spirit which directed
in this enterprise, was no other than Pratt, who had previously become acquainted with Rigdon,
and had been proselyted by him into what is called the Campbellite faith.

This new system appears to have been particularly suited to Rigdon's taste, and calculated
to make an impression on his mind. But before he could fully embrace it, he must "receive a
testimony from God." In order to this, he labored as he was directed by his Preceptor,
almost incessantly and earnestly in praying, till at length, his mind was wrapped up in
a vision; and to use his own language, "to my astonishment I saw the different orders of
professing Christians passing before my eyes, with their hearts exposed to view, and they
were as corrupt as corruption itself. That society to which I belonged also passed before
my eyes, and to my astonishment, it was as corrupt as the others. Last of all that little
man who bro't me the Book of Mormon, passed before my eyes with his heart open, and it was
as pure as an angel; and this was a testimony from God; that the Book of Mormon, was a
Divine Revelation.

Rigdon is one who has ascended to the summit of Mormonism; and this vision stands as the
foundation of his knowledge. He frequently [affirms], that these things are not a
matter of faith with him, but of absolute knowledge. He has been favored with many
extraordinary visions...

Ezra Booth Letter dated Dec. 6, 1831
in Ohio Star (Ravenna, Ohio), Dec. 8, 1831
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH ... htm#120831
cf Howe, 1834 p. 217
http://solomonspalding.com/docs/1834howe.htm#pg217

========================

1843 "History of Joseph Smith" (with information supplied by Sidney Rigdon)

[The "four missionaries to the Lamanites] expressed a desire to lay the [Book of Mormon] subject
before the people, and requested the privilege of preaching in elder Rigdon's church, to which
he [i.e. Sidney Rigdon] readily consented. The appointment was accordingly published, and a
large and respectable congregation assemble. Oliver Cowdery and Parley P. Pratt severally
addressed the meeting. At the conclusion, elder Rigdon arose and stated to the congregation that
the information they had that evening received, was of an extraordinary character, and certainly
demanded their most serious consideration: and as the apostle advised his brethren "to prove all
things, and hold fast that which is good," so he would exhort his brethren to do likewise, and
give the matter a careful investigation; and not turn against it, without being fully convinced
of its being an imposition, lest they should, possibly resist the truth.

This was, indeed, generous on the part of elder Rigdon, and gave evidence of his entire freedom
from any sectarian bias; but allowing his mind full scope to range, untrammeled, through the
scriptures, embracing every principle of truth, and rejecting error, under whatever guise it
should appear. He was perfectly willing to allow his members the same privilege. Having received
great light on the scriptures, he felt desirous to receive more, from whatever quarter it should
come. This was his prevailing characteristic; and if any sentiment was advanced by any one, that
was new, or tended to throw light on the scriptures, or the dealings of God with the children of
men, it was always gladly received, and treasured up in his mind. After the meeting broke up, the
brethren returned home with elder Rigdon, and conversed upon the important things which they had
proclaimed. He informed them that he should read the Book of Mormon, give it a full investigation,
and then would frankly tell them his mind and feelings on the subject -- told them they were
welcome to abide at his house until he had opportunity of reading it.

About two miles from elder Rigdon's, at the town of Kirtland, were a number of the members of his
church, who lived together, and had all things common -- from which circumstance has arisen the
idea that this was the case with the Church of Jesus Christ -- to which place they immediately
repaired, and proclaimed the gospel to them, with some considerable success; for their testimony
was received by many of the people, and seventeen came forward in obedience to the gospel.

While thus engaged, they visited elder Rigdon occasionally, and found him very earnestly engaged
in reading the "Book of Mormon," -- praying to the Lord for direction, and meditating on the
things he heard and read; and after a fortnight from the time the book was put in his hands, he
was fully convinced of the truth of the work, by a revelation from Jesus Christ, which was made
known to him in a remarkable manner, so that he could exclaim "flesh and blood hath not revealed
it unto me, by my father which is in heaven."

Being now fully satisfied in his own mind of the truth of the work, and the necessity of obedience
thereto, he informed his wife of the same, and was happy to find that she was not only diligently
investigating the subject, but was believing with all her heart, and was desirous of obeying the
truth, which, undoubtedly, was great satisfaction to his mind.

Times and Seasons, IV:19 (Aug. 15, 1843), pp. 289-290
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/Rigd1843.htm#p209

========================

1863 Rigdonite Doctrinal Statement

One priesthood was to bring forth the word of the Lord, for the benefit of the Lamanites, and the
other priesthood was to proclaim it to them, and thereby save them. Nothing can be plainer than
the case here is. He who held the keys of the first administration, was to bring forth the word, and
he who held the keys of the second, was to gather them by means of that word. In connection with this,
the 3d paragraph of the 95th section of the Book of Doctrine and Covenants says: "And it is expedient
in me that you, my servant Sidney, should be a spokesman unto this people; yea, verily, I will ordain
you to this calling, even to be a spokesman unto my servant Joseph." The Lord had said, in the
Book of Mormon, that he would raise up to Joseph Smith a spokesman; and the Spirit said, in the Book of
Doctrine and Covenants, that Sideny Rigdon was that spokesman. The case then stands thus: Joseph Smith
was to translate the Book of Mormon, and Sidney Rigdon was to take it, and gather Israel.

Here is the sum of the whole matter. The prophet Malachi had said that before Christ came, he would
send his messenger, and he should prepare the way before him. Joseph Smith said that Sidney Rigdon
was that messenger. The Spirit said that the Lord would raise up a spokesman to Joseph Smith, and
Joseph Smith said that Sidney was that spokesman. The Lord said he would prepare a priesthood with
which he would gather Israel. Joseph Smith said that Sidney Rigdon held that priesthood.

p. 27
http://sidneyrigdon.com/books/Appl1863.htm#pg27a

Joseph Smith nor Oliver Cowdery had never heard tell of him who was to hold this priesthood; and the
Lord said through Joseph Smith to Sidney Rigdon, that he had been sent forth as John, but he knew it not.

This was the position things were in when Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery had the keys of the gift
bestowed on them to bring the priesthood to light. Oliver Cowdery was the man who brought the Book of
Mormon to Sidney Rigdon (entire strangers to each other), and presented it as a revelation, and asked
him to give it a reading. He did so, and the Spirit of truth which was in him pronounced it a revelation.
The consequence was that Oliver Cowdery baptized him, and he was introduced into the church.

p. 28
http://sidneyrigdon.com/books/Appl1863.htm#pg28a

There is a sentence in the sayings here recorded that calls for a special notice. Where it is said to
Sidney Rigdon: "And I will give unto thee power to be mighty in expounding all Scriptures, that thou
mayest be a spokesman unto him." From these declarations it is manifest that to be a spokesman, a man
must be able to expound all Scriptures, or else the Spirit would not have said, "I will give unto thee
power to expound all Scriptures," that thou mayest be a spokesman: the same as to say, that unless thou
canst expound all Scriptures, thou canst not be a spokesman; and another implication is equally manifest:
that if not able to be a spokesman, then, thou canst not take the words of the Nephites, and declare
them to the Lamanites, for this required a spokesman...

Who cannot understand, that all the learning thus required would want years in order to obtain it,
a literature of a higher degree than that which is peculiar to the priesthood? Indeed, when we read
these things, we say in our heart, Who is sufficient for them? We presume to answer, No other man,
only he of whom the requirement is made. How will a man be able to expound all Scriptures, not to say,
be mighty to do it? for that implies perfection in his attainments, and corresponds exactly with the
duty of perfecting his ministry: the thing that is said he should do. He should perfect his ministry,
by being perfect in expounding all Scriptures....

pp. 44-45
http://sidneyrigdon.com/books/Appl1863.htm#pg44a

it could not be otherwise than that Joseph Smith should be cut off; for if there ever was a man who
got to eating and drinking with the drunken, Joseph Smith was one. Not only did he eat and drink with
the drunken, but got drunk himself, and abused his fellow-servants to the extent of his power,
and that without any regard to truth, and taught those over whom he had influence, that they ought to
lie for him; and Parley P. Pratt, who has, since Smith was cut off, shared a similar fate himself,
and for the same cause, that of transgression, had the boldness once to say that they ought to lie
for Brother Joseph; and it was a fact that he and others did so on the grand scale.

p. 52
http://sidneyrigdon.com/books/Appl1863.htm#pg52a

Sidney Rigdon, et al.
"An Appeal to the Latter Days Saints"
(Philadelphia, self pub., 1863)

========================

1869 "The Mormons" series of articles

About this time a stranger was seen to visit the home of the Smiths. It has been asserted that this
mysterious stranger must have been SIDNEY RIGDON, to whom has been very generally attributed the furnishing
of the manuscript from which the Mormon Bible was printed. Rigdon, who is now living, and with whom the
writer recently had a personal interview, positively denies all knowledge of the Book of Mormon until after
it was printed. If Rigdon's denial be admitted, this stranger remains unknown...

http://sidneyrigdon.com/1869Moor.htm#Moore1

Sidney B. Rigdon was the master intellect of the whole movement prior to the settlement of the "Saints"
at Nauvoo. A few weeks ago the writer visited this original apostle, the first preacher, the ablest
lecturer of all the early days of Mormonism, and the principal materials for this sketch were communicated
from his own lips....

Rigdon... became acquainted with a Baptist minister and his attention was called to personal religion.
He received baptism... and spent a number of months in the family of his new friend and spiritual counsellor,
the Baptist minister before mentioned. Here he found what seemed to him a perfect paradise of books and
intellectual companionship. He found in himself an insatiable thirst for reading. He read history,
divinity, and general literature, without much method or aim, except to gratify his intense love of reading.
He gave great attention to the Bible, and made himself very familiar with all parts of it. He readily committed
to memory and thus stored up large portions of the most attractive portions of the Bible....

His intense love of investigation and new modes of thought here continued to grow upon him. He claims that
he thoroughly reviewed the Scriptures, and reached down to their profoundest depths. Dissatisfied with all
ordinary interpretations, he began a series of new and original explanations of doctrine, of history and of
prophecy. These novelties soon appeared in his preaching... Oliver Cowdery, Joe Smith's amanuensis...
came along with his pack. He had heard of the erratic and heretical preacher. He presented him with a copy
of the golden Bible. Rigdon solemnly affirms that this was his first personal knowledge of Joe Smith and the
Mormons. After a few days Cowdery returned and held a long interview with Rigdon. Rigdon had read a considerable
portion of the book. He questioned Cowdery about Smith, and found that he was entirely illiterate. Rigdon
expressed the utmost amazement that such a man should write a book which seemed to shed a flood of light on
all the old Scriptures, and give them perfect consistency and complete system. In his fresh enthusiasm, he
exclaimed that if God ever gave a revelation surely this must be divine. Thus Mormonism gained its first
clerical convert, and from this time Rigdon became one of the great lights and leading spirits of the
Mormon movement.

http://sidneyrigdon.com/1869Moor.htm#Moore2

Articles by Austin W. Cowles (former disciple of Rigdon's post-Nauvoo teachings)
Rochester: "Moore's Rural New-Yorker," Jan. 02, 1869 & Jan. 23, 1869


========================

1868 Sidney Rigdon Revelation

Section 37th

As the time appointed of the Lord for the beginning of the organization of Zion is drawing near.
It is of great importance that the incoming priesthoods should understand the relation they bear
to Zion...

Behold & lo! saith the Holy one of Israel all that the Lord you God has done since he inspired
Joseph Smith Jr. to bring from darkness and obscurity the Book of Mormon has been in view of & for the
purpose of bringing to pass this... I the holy one of Israel brought forth through my servant
Joseph Smith Jr. the record of the Nephites, the Book of Mormon which contained the fullness of my gospel,
and I the Lord sent it forth among the nations of the earth calling on all alike to hear and obey my
word that they might be saved...

And now saith the Lord out of all those who were called from among the nations, one only was found who
could accomplish the work of separation, and that one was my servant Sidney Rigdon. He was great in the
land of the living in the midst of the Gentiles before he was called. Those of all denominations or
religious sects in Babylon stood in fear of him. Their teachers shrunk from his presence and in consequence
the world of Babylon sought occasion against him, that they might have wherewith to accuse him, but when
they could find none, their teachers warned their people against hearing him, for he was a dangerous man,
and his knowledge of the Bible was so great that none could stand before him....

I the Lord called him from his plow, as I did Amos from among the herdsmen of Jehoa. He was then
unlearned & I the Lord myself became his teacher, and assisted him to understand all things till he became
the head of the literary world. There was no man living so well qualified to judge of the divine authenticity
of the Book of Mormon as he was. His knowledge of the Lords manner of writing was such as enabled him to
detect it when he saw it, & thus it was that he received the Book of Mormon when I the Lord sent it to him.
At the time the Book of Mormon came to him he was the teacher of the largest congregation in the part of the
country where he lived composed of all classes, rich and poor, and he was dependant on them for his living.
And at the time the Book of Mormon came his congregation was purchasing a place & prepareing to building him
a house and settle him under pleasant circumstances. At this time saith the Lord my messenger in the person
of Oliver Cowdery came to him with the Book of Mormon; he being prepared by previous acquaintance with the
word of the Lord received it at the expense of all the bright prospects and high sounding honors bestowed on
him by the world. Like Moses choosing to suffer affliction with the people of God rather than enjoy the
pleasures of sin for a season having respect to the recompense of reward. He had a family of small children
to provide for but trusted them and himself to the mercy of God. but no sooner was this done than the fury of
Satan with all his host were let loose on him in fury and have followed him till this day.

Stephen Post Collection, box 1, fd 16, Copying Book A
(Van Wagoner cites the date as "1 July 1868" in his "Sidney Rigdon," p. 61)

=====================================

1875 "Advent of Mormonism" Account (evidently updated by Matthew S. Clapp from his 1831 statement)

The next scene opens in Mentor. About the middle of November, came two footmen with carpet bags filled
with copies of the Book of Mormon, and stopped at Rigdon's. What passed that night between him and these
young prophets no pen will reveal; but interpreting events came rapidly on, Next morning, while Judge Clapp's
family were at breakfast, in came Rigdon, and in an excited manner said: "Two men came to my house last night
on a c-u-r-i-o-u-s mission;" prolonging the word in a strange manner. When thus awakened, all around the
table looking up, he proceeded to narrate how some men in Palmyra, N. Y., had found, by direction of an angel,
certain plates inscribed with mysterious characters; that by the same heavenly visitant, a young man,
ignorant of letters, had been led into the secret of deciphering the writing on the plates; that it made
known the origin of the Indian tribes; with other matters of great interest to the world, and that the discovery
would be of such importance as to open the way for the introduction of the Millennium. Amazement! They had
been accustomed to his stories about the Indians, much more marvelous than credible, but this strange statement,
made with an air both of wonder and credulity... two days afterward he [Rigdon] was persuaded to tempt God by
asking this sign. The sign appeared, and he was convinced that Mormonism was of God!...

Amos S. Hayden's "History of the Disciples"
(Cincinnati: Chase & Hall, 1875) pp. 210-212
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/1875Hay2.htm#pg210

=====================================

Jan. 28, 1879 Letter from Henry H. Clapp


The whole matter of Rigdon's conversion to Mormonism was so secret, so sudden and so perfectly unexpected,
that it was to us like a clap of thunder out of a clear sky. The four Mormons came to Mr. Rigdon's... I was
present at the time of the incident... Mr. Rigdon... proceeded to state the curious errand of some men from
the State of New York who had put up with him the night before, giving a very plain but brief view of the
history and object of the new revelation. He was evidently expecting encouragement, but the response of my
brother so decided and evidently unlooked for, showed him that he had nothing to hope for from us. His
countenance fell and without another word he returned home, and, though living in a house on my father's
farm but a few rods away, he never set foot in our house again.

at Kirtland... he affected to exhibit great sorrow and contrition for the inutility of his past preaching,
"that he feared it had only tickled their ears, etc." I cannot speak for all that were there, but I saw no
signs of sympathy with any except those already enlisted in Mormonism. As for myself, the whole thing was
such an evident piece of hypocrisy that I turned away sick and disgusted. I had heard all I wished and
returned home.... There was no attempt to get up a public meeting for the purpose of examining the claims
of the Book of Mormon before Mr. Rigdon embraced it, either in Mentor or Kirtland, or anywhere in the vicinity.
It is sheer fabrication and gotten up (I presume) for the purpose of covering over the indecent haste with
which he embraced it.

Reproduced in James T. Cobb's "Sidney Rigdon's Conversion to Mormonism"
"Salt Lake Tribune," XVII:27 (May 16, 1879)
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/UT ... htm#051679

=====================================


Uncle Dale

[_Uncle Dale]

I noticed a response to Dan Vogel at the bottom of Ted Chandler's web-page on Skousen, etc.

http://mormonstudies.com/scribe.htm#Vogel


A few excerpts:

Dan Vogel has offered a critique of my work on a message board at mormondiscussions.com.

Vogel states: "Unfortunately, Chandler's response to Skousen is based on a very poor understanding of O-MS,
as well as the mechanics of Skousen's transcription. ... His evidence for visual copying is almost exclusively
from misspelled words, or rather malformed letters and slips of the pen, which were later corrected." ...

Vogel's discussion of Skousen's examples amounts to little more than opining that Skousen's explanations are
"more likely" than mine. This a rather poor argument and seems to depend on accepting Vogel's position that
the manuscript was dictated.

Vogel declares that there is no evidence in the O-MS of either dittography or haplography. This is incorrect.
I haven't gone through the entire manuscript, but here are a few examples.

Dittography: [several examples cited]...

Haplography: [several examples cited]...

Vogel hasn't shown that Skousen didn't mean exactly what he said about replacing one letter by another,
he hasn't demonstrated that Skousen's explanations are "more likely" than other possibilities, he is completely
unaware of dittography and haplography in the O-MS, and he ignores changes similar to those in Knight's journal.
All of this poses serious challenges to Vogel's position.

Uncle Dale

[_Dan Vogel]

Dale,

# 4 but in order to respond in greater detail I'd need time, a day at least. In essence I don't think Rigdon was a religious follower, having been thrown out of a Baptist group for having different ideas. He was opinionated and not particularly open to persuasion.

And this you say of a man who was baptized for the third time into Mormonism? He was also somewhat erratic and eccentric. Campbell and Scott had different opinions about Rigdon as he was slipping towards the irrationality of religious enthusiasm. He was just the type to make a hasty emotionally-based conversion.

His eagerness to join so quickly bascially within a day, having only read the Book of Mormon in the evening and without having spent much time in evaluation leads one to question why would he act so fast. What was his primary motivation, what were his rewards? He already had a congregation, actually I believe 2 so why give them up to another authority unless he was offered a position within the new sect. And why would he be offered a position by them so soon as they had only just presented the Book of Mormon to him. So with the speed of events being so quick, it appears it was all planned out well in advance.

This kind of thing was a regular occurrence with early Mormon missionaries. Remember, these were charismatic conversions. They didn't have to take 7 or 8 missionary lessons. Sometimes the elders would preach, and people would come forward right then to be baptized.

Don't forget there were others baptized at the same time as Rigdon.

In a letter dated 12 November 1830, Kirtland, Ohio, Oliver Cowdery states:

... seventeen went immediately forward and were baptized, between eleven and twelve at night, and on the 6th there was one more, on the 7th nine in the day time and at night nineteen, on the 8th three, on the 9th three, on the 10th at night one, on the 11th one, on this day another, making in the whole fifty five, among whom are brother Sidney Rigdon and wife.

--(Newel Knight, Journal, circa 1846, private possession).

What do you imagine these other converts, who received baptism before Rigdon, were offered in exchange for membership? Generally, you are going on a very subjective hunch--not exactly compelling.

by the way, thanks for bringing Chandler's reply to my attention. It was rather unexpected. I will post my response later today.

[_Uncle Dale]

Dale,

# 4 but in order to respond in greater detail I'd need time, a day at least. In essence I don't think Rigdon was
a religious follower, having been thrown out of a Baptist group for having different ideas. He was opinionated
and not particularly open to persuasion.

And this you say of a man who was baptized for the third time into Mormonism?

Probably marg has not yet had time to study the 1830 situation in depth -- hopefully my having provided a
number of sources will help her better reconstruct the events surrounding Rigdon's quick Mormon conversion.

Rigdon was both a follower and a leader. When the Church of Christ was organized in Pittsburgh in 1823-24
he took a secondary position, behind the primary elder, Walter Scott. And, at a distance, Alexander Campbell
had a great influence over the theology and religious practices of both men. So, in that sense, Rigdon was a
"follower." I do not know whether he or Elder Scott composed the "3rd Epistle of Peter." The very fact that the
pseudo-scripture has no attribution means that, if Rigdon did write it, he was content to let it be published by
Scott (and re-published later by Campbell) without Sidney being able to take any credit for the composition.
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/1824Scot.htm#page36a

Rev. Lawrence Greatrake, who was Rigdon's 1824 replacement, as the pastor of the hyper-Calvinist loyalists
in the Pittsburgh First Baptist Church, provides the details of Rigdon's being "thrown out of a Baptist group
for having different ideas." Actually the scene in 1823 was more complex than this. The congregation was split,
with Rigdon evidently attempting to secure himself the position of hosting the 1823 Redstone Baptist Assoc.
annual meeting in Pittsburgh, as a pro-Campbell leader in that city. In order to carry this secret manipulation
forward, Rigdon first of all attempted to disfellowship the hyper-Calvinists in his congregation. They responded
by seeking ecclesiastical support from their fellow Calvinists in surrounding Redstone congregations. By the
time that the annual meeting began (in Rigdon's Pittsburgh chapel), Alexander Campbell had been forced to
withdraw from the Redstone Association and Sidney Rigdon had so little remaining support, that he was
compelled to step aside and allow others to preside over the gathering in his own church. The hyper-Calvinists
won the concession of a Redstone investigation and were subsequently judged by that Association to be the
rightful Regular Baptist congregation in Pittsburgh. Thus Sidney and his pro-Cambell followers were not so
much "thrown out" of the Redstone Association, as they were "left out" by counter-manipulations carried out by
Alexander Campbell's religious rivals. Rigdon was at that stage very much a "follower" and a failed "leader."
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/1836Grtk.htm#pg28b

As I said, when the Pittsburgh Church of Christ was formed a few months later, Rigdon's position slipped down
another notch, he being the Second Elder in that pro-Campbell "restored church."

Sidney's subsequent exploits in southern Geauga Co., Ohio soon cost him his pastor's position in the Bainbridge
congregation of the Grand River Association Regular Baptists in that place, and he had to resort to being a
travelling minister into Mahoning Association territory (Hiram, Mantua, etc.) in order to carry on as a disciple
of Alexander Campbell's "Reform." He was still very much a "follower" and a failed "leader." That situation
continued after he took up the pastor's office in the northern Geauga Co. Regular Baptist congregation at
Mentor. Within two years of his assuming that position, he had instituted Walter Scott's "Ancient Gospel" system
of Christian conversion and baptism -- and his semi-Arminian "Reform" efforts cost him the excommunication of
the entire Mentor church -- Rigdon was at that stage still very much a "follower" and a failed "leader."

So, Dan -- it was marg who was provisionally viewing Rigdon as an opinionated leader, instead of being a
"follower" in the Campbellite "Reform." At some point (I think 1827-28) Rigdon began to openly rebel against
Campbell's restrictive theology, but he remained at least an ostensible follower as late as 1829.

At the time he was baptized for a third time, the religious tenets he accepted in going into Mormonism were
exactly those of his own Rigdonite sub-group in the Baptist "Reform." Thus, Sidney Rigdon did not have to
accept any new relegious precepts by "persuasion," other than perhaps the overt act of tempting God for signs
and wonders through supplicatory prayer.

He was also somewhat erratic and eccentric. Campbell and Scott had different opinions about Rigdon as he
was slipping towards the irrationality of religious enthusiasm. He was just the type to make a hasty emotionally-based conversion.

Dan -- on what basis can you say that? Was he "slipping towards the irrationality of religious enthusiasm," or
had his childhood head injury left him the victim of frequent visions and delusions, all through his life? Did
he make life-changing decisions hastily, based on "emotion," or had he been confident that he was a channel
for God's revelation for years prior to his Mormon baptism? In short -- WHAT was there for him to convert to?

Marg makes a good point -- that Rigdon was surrendering control over his Mentor and Kirtland congregations
when he became a Mormon convert. Those congregations had already lost the oversight and leadership of
their original Grand River Baptist Association moorings, and their temporary alliance with the neighboring
Campbellite Mahoning Baptist Association ended in the fall of 1830. Rigdon was left the unchallenged leader of
his own nothern Ohio Rigdonites, with followers in a number of adjacent Reformed Baptist congregations. In
his Mormon conversion he surrendered all of that -- he surrendered even a roof over the heads of his family.
It would be the modern equivalent of the "prophetic" Pat Robertson handing over his enthusiastic following
to Charlie Manson or to David Koresh.

Such a hand-over of ecclesiastical power does not strike me as being very typical of Sidney Rigdon. He was
used to being the #2 man in religious reforms -- of sharing power with Elder Walter Scott -- of operating with
"shared billing" as the rather secretive and manipulative agent of Alexander Campbell -- but for him to demote
himself to the status of an ordinary, powerless new member of Mormonism strikes me as being more than a
little problematic. It seems "unRigdonlike" to me -- unless there was an agreed to hidden agenda, which very
quickly propelled him into the SECRET MEETINGS in the New York Church of Christ, already discussed. I say
that we need to investigate this strange occurrence more closely. What hitherto unexamined evidence might
we be able to uncover? Scott Kenney has already been working on these matters and has gathered some new
material for his upcoming Kirtland era book. If you ever get past your work with the "Histoey of the Church"
compilations, and get back into investigating the Kirtland period, you yourself may well uncover the 1830
personal journal or obscure correspondence that gives us better information on the matter.

His eagerness to join so quickly bascially within a day, having only read the Book of Mormon in the evening and without having spent much time in evaluation leads one to question why would he act so fast. What was his primary motivation, what were his rewards? He already had a congregation, actually I believe 2 so why give them up to another authority unless he was offered a position within the new sect. And why would he be offered a position by them so soon as they had only just presented the Book of Mormon to him. So with the speed of events being so quick, it appears it was all planned out well in advance.

This kind of thing was a regular occurrence with early Mormon missionaries. Remember, these were charismatic conversions. They didn't have to take 7 or 8 missionary lessons. Sometimes the elders would preach, and people would come forward right then to be baptized.

Don't forget there were others baptized at the same time as Rigdon.

No, Dan -- you have that wrong. Whitmer and Peterson went to Kirtland and there set in motion the conversion
of those 17 communitarians. Then Cowdery left Rigdon, went over to Kirtland, and baptized them. And more
than one source says, at this Rigdon SEEMED much upset or angered.

Why did those 17 Rigdonites defy their own pastor and go into another church entirely? Rigdon lived within
walking distance of the Morley farm commune. Do you not think it strange that nobody thought to first ask for
his imput, on such a great transfer of religious loyality? By all accounts the communitarians were those members
of the Rigdonite fold most loyal to Sidney and his theological departures from Campbellism.

My reconstruction of the history tells me that Rigdon allowed Whitmer and Peterson to go missionizing in Kirtland;
and that he encouraged Cowdery to go over there and reap the fruits of those missionaries' labors -- but that
Rigdon at the same time put on a public face of being displeased with his loss of those 17 followers.

What do you imagine these other converts, who received baptism before Rigdon, were offered in exchange
for membership? Generally, you are going on a very subjective hunch--not exactly compelling.

I cannot speak directly for marg, but I suppose that she would say that the 17 Rigdonites were offered salvation.
Back before the introduction of the semi-Universalist "three degrees of glory" tenet into Mormonism, the message
was that any person who was exposed to the Mormon "fulness of the gospel" and who rejected it, was bound for
eternal hellfire --- while those who accepted it were assured of their Ephraimite "eternal inheritance in Zion."
For the joiners of the Rigdonite commune (who had little or no personal wealth), the prospect of such godly
paternalism, made manifest in earthly treasure and eternal glory, must have made the Mormon gospel a very
attractive proposition. My own Winegar ancestral Mormon family were of this dirt-poor, enthusiastic, and
communitarian-minded sort -- and I attribute their 1832 conversion to just the sort of reasons that the 17
members of the Kirtland commune were enticed into Mormonism. With one difference -- my ancestors were
not loyal followers of Sidney Rigdon, living ten miles away from his residence, when they became Mormons.

The Mormons' conversion of those 17 makes sense for the reasons I have given -- and especially so, if Oliver
could wink and nod at his Allegany Co., NY friend Lyman Wight, and say under his breath, "Brother Sidney
fully approves of your conversion, and will himself be baptized into this new dispensation in short order."

by the way, thanks for bringing Chandler's reply to my attention. It was rather unexpected. I will post my response
later today.

After seeing Ted's comments, I e-mailed him and said I was willing to suspend judgment -- and that for all
I know, parts of the O-MS were indeed dictated, while other parts may have been the product of a copyist.

Dale

[_Uncle Dale]

Just a quick message to say that I have begun to post the "Book of Solomon" research findings that I
conducted in cooperation with the late Vernal Holley.

This will comprise a series of web-pages devoted to documenting the thematic, phraseology, vocabulary, and
"non-contextual" word patterns for a Solomon Spalding authorship of the 1830 Book of Mormon Alma XX-Helaman II text:
http://solomonspalding.com/SRP/MEDIA/BookSol1.htm

The work may take a few weeks -- I'll try add some new material every few days.

Dale

[_Dan Vogel]

Just a quick message to say that I have begun to post the "Book of Solomon" research findings that I
conducted in cooperation with the late Vernal Holley.

This will comprise a series of web-pages devoted to documenting the thematic, phraseology, vocabulary, and
"non-contextual" word patterns for a Solomon Spalding authorship of the 1830 Book of Mormon Alma XX-Helaman II text:
http://solomonspalding.com/SRP/MEDIA/BookSol1.htm

The work may take a few weeks -- I'll try add some new material every few days.

Dale

I hope they are better than the one page you gave previously. I have comments to make on that but my response to Chandler has taken more time than it should have. I'm trying to cut it down. Chandler has a bad habit of just listing undigested material, which forces his respondent to do the analyzing for him. I'll probably post it tomorrow.