UFO: The Greatest Story Ever Denied.

[_Buffalo]

So Ray, what is the single strongest piece of evidence for UFO visitations?

[_Ray A]

What is your opinion on the ufo disclosure project?

The Disclosure Project is simply the extension of what was proposed by Timothy Good (rather, heavily evidenced, for those who actually care to read the book) back in 1987, that there has been a long and deliberate PR campaign by governments (mainly the US government) to discredit UFO/Alien accounts and witnesses, particularly those who claim "top secret" inside information as former officers or employees of such organisations. Although only a small number spoke at the 2001 media conference, there are over 400 witnesses willing to sign affidavits under oath regarding what they saw/experienced. I think that can only be a good thing. The primary point of the secrecy is that these governments realise that faced with an alien threat, or invasion, they are powerless to do anything, thus both national and international security is compromised by disclosure. That's the nuts and bolts of it.

[_Buffalo]

What is your opinion on the ufo disclosure project?

The Disclosure Project is simply the extension of what was proposed by Timothy Good (rather, heavily evidenced, for those who actually care to read the book) back in 1987, that there has been a long and deliberate PR campaign by governments (mainly the US government) to discredit UFO/Alien accounts and witnesses, particularly those who claim "top secret" inside information as former officers or employees of such organisations. Although only a small number spoke at the 2001 media conference, there are over 400 witnesses willing to sign affidavits under oath regarding what they saw/experienced. I think that can only be a good thing. The primary point of the secrecy is that these governments realise that faced with an alien threat, or invasion, they are powerless to do anything, thus both national and international security is compromised by disclosure. That's the nuts and bolts of it.

So, if I understand you correctly, the biggest piece of evidence of aliens is that the government tried to hush up eye witness accounts. Is that right? Couldn't that also be evidence that some of these witnesses saw classified technology, and the government tried to hush them up about their secret projects?

What evidence do we have that the government hushed them up? Testimony? Documents? Video tape?

[_Ray A]

I have another one for you, Ray. This one is very impressive.

A NASA scientist just published this paper detailing what he is pretty sure are bacteria fossils found in a meteorite. Lots of news stories on the web if you look.

This link is to his actual paper (with photos!) in the Journal of Cosmology. Could be the "smoking gun".

http://journalofcosmology.com/Life100.html

Nice find, Quas. I noticed it was posted on another forum I sometimes frequent too, with this link:

NASA scientist finds evidence of alien life.

In order to satisfy the inevitable hoard of buzz-killing skeptics, Hoover’s study and evidence were made available to his peers in the scientific community in advance of the study’s publications, giving them a chance to thoroughly dissect his findings. Comments from those who decided to sift through the evidence will be published online, alongside the study.

“Given the controversial nature of his discovery, we have invited 100 experts and have issued a general invitation to over 5,000 scientists from the scientific community to review the paper and to offer their critical analysis,” writes Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics scientist Dr. Rudy Schild, who serves as the Journal of Cosmology’s editor-in-chief. “No other paper in the history of science has undergone such a thorough vetting, and never before in the history of science has the scientific community been given the opportunity to critically analyze an important research paper before it is published.”

However, that will not satisfy The New Inquisition*:

“[The Journal of Cosmology] isn’t a real science journal at all,” says PZ Meyers in Science Blogs, “but is the ginned-up website of a small group of crank academics obsessed with the idea of Hoyle and Wickramasinghe that life originated in outer space and simply rained down on Earth.”

So there you have it — this is either reality-altering news, or the work of kooks. Our hearts believe, but our brains are kind of bummed.

*

The New Inquisition is the author's term for what he refers to as a tendency within mainstream science to forbid certain forms of theories from being classed as "science."

I'm still trying to decide whether this is worse than dogmatic religion, and I think I'm leaning in that direction.

[_ShadowFax]

Ray: what do the aliens look like? Are they the same species as us?

I've never seen one, Buffalo, but have read many reports of encounters. They apparently range in size from three to four feet, to significantly taller than us (of the species that have been encountered). As Edgar Mitchell observed, they generally tend to be "little people", however there is also a species who look exactly like us; you wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you saw one of them in a crowd.

I had the understanding that you had an encounter. I must have misread. If it was an encounter seeing an aircraft perhaps it was a military craft testing modern technology? As my previous link mentioned that ww2 Nazi Germany built air crafts that could be confused for alien air crafts.

Anyway Ray, I wish you well and hope you can get it all sorted.

[_Ray A]

I had the understanding that you had an encounter.

I did. It's called an encounter of the First Kind.

I must have misread.

You didn't.

If it was an encounter seeing an aircraft perhaps it was a military craft testing modern technology? As my previous link mentioned that ww2 Nazi Germany built air crafts that could be confused for alien air crafts.

I've previously posted more detail about that possibility in this thread. In essence, if that is true, then it means that we (humans) possess (secret) technology that the masses are unaware of. That is, craft that can break the sound barrier without a sonic boom, and fly and hover silently. I guess in this area your speculation is as good a mine.

Anyway Ray, I wish you well and hope you can get it all sorted.

Thanks. I have appreciated your input on this thread, and your attempt to offer alternative explanations. At least you haven't compared me to a "drunk" and "mushroom sniffer" and you've refrained from mockery, and considering the links in your sig. line, that's a significant improvement on what I've encountered in most "Exmos" commenting on this subject.

[Guest]

Thanks. I have appreciated your input on this thread, and your attempt to offer alternative explanations. At least you haven't compared me to a "drunk" and "mushroom sniffer" and you've refrained from mockery, and considering the links in your sig. line, that's a significant improvement on what I've encountered in most "Exmos" commenting on this subject.

I'm getting old and with age I've developed a different type of observation and I wouldn't mock such a thing. Well, I guess I did mock Smith with the missionary moon cartoon a few pages back, but I'm not a Smith fan and he charged a lot of money (tithes) in telling his story/lies, which is my big beef with the men in suits in SLC who keep the lie going re the tithe commandment in the name of God and missionaries to spread the fallacies.
You don't ask for any money and therefore I have no axe to grind with you. (apparently my wallet is my sore spot)

Back to your story. If military has technology then it becomes a question as to why they don't come forward publicly with the technology and shed some light on the topic. If you had a chance to watch the Nazi ww2 documentary I mentioned I think you'd like it. Bear in mind I don't believe all the documentaries I see but this one had some compelling commentaries that claims Germany had advanced technology. I suspect that if Germany had/has technology then the rest of the military internationally wasn't far behind.

in real life I've met a number of people who claim to have had actual encounters of the 3rd kind. In all the cases it appeared to be a very difficult thing for them to endure and my heart goes out to them. Having never personally experienced anything like it I can only imagine that an experience of the nature you describe must have been quite alarming for you to understand or figure out. Maybe there is something you can take from all of this to help you in life? Some type of purpose you can make out of it?

That said, back in '91 a crop circle was found on farmland on the outskirts of my city. I was curious and went to view it along with many other people in the community. Experts of all kinds were brought in and claimed that it could not have been made by man and it was never heard about again. Dropped like a hot potato.

I am agnostic by nature and question when there is room for uncertainty. Except when it comes to Mormonism and other types of religions. I know Mormonism is not correct. Of that I am very certain.

[_Ray A]

If you had a chance to watch the Nazi ww2 documentary I mentioned I think you'd like it. Bear in mind I don't believe all the documentaries I see but this one had some compelling commentaries that claims Germany had advanced technology. I suspect that if Germany had/has technology then the rest of the military internationally wasn't far behind.

The link you provided had some complications in downloading, but I found it on You Tube and I'm watching it now. Will get back to you later. I have read about this in the past but haven't seen the documentary.

[_Ray A]

Back to your story. If military has technology then it becomes a question as to why they don't come forward publicly with the technology and shed some light on the topic. If you had a chance to watch the Nazi ww2 documentary I mentioned I think you'd like it. Bear in mind I don't believe all the documentaries I see but this one had some compelling commentaries that claims Germany had advanced technology. I suspect that if Germany had/has technology then the rest of the military internationally wasn't far behind.

I’ve watched the History Channel documentary. Interesting viewing, but I believe we have stronger links for explaining advanced (“alien-derived”) technology. First, if the Germans did have “alien technology” (which is the claim), then it was transferred to the US via German scientists who were either banned from Germany or who fled Germany in exile to the US. They didn’t want Hitler to get hold of this technology (and thus win the war), so it was in effect transferred to the US military, which means that if some UFOs are “manned” (by humans) then it came out of developing US technology based on alien technology. A number of things are left unexplained, for example what is the time line for this development, and how sophisticated is it? Do humans now work with aliens in developing these craft? One witness in The Disclosure Project claims to have had alien contact (Sgt. Clifford Stone), and claims have been made about the “38 levels of secrecy” before “Top Secret”, where “only about 25 people in the world know what’s really going on”, and that could include top secret technology, and the possibility that some UFOs are “manned”.

Let’s turn to Wernher Von Braun. The first claim is that Von Braun was a witness to alien bodies and the remains of an alien craft at Roswell:

Wernher von Braun & The Roswell Crash.

McClelland states that Von Braun's eyebrows raised when he asked him the following questions;
"Did the Roswell Incident in fact happen?"
"Was an alien craft recovered along with aline bodies?
"Did you have a chance to go to the crash site?"
Von Braun lit a cigarette, thought for a second, and then began to discuss the crash openly. McClelland vowed not to discuss Von Braun's remarks with anyone. He kept the vow, and only after Von Braun's death, did he put in writing, or make public in any other way the amazing facts that he heard that night.

The second claim comes from Carol Rosin, “a consultant to corporations and organizations, including TRW, Disney, GE, IBM and the National Space Institute on space and defense. She has testified before the U.S. Congress, the U.S. Senate, the President's Commission on Space and has met with people in over 100 countries about the feasibility of banning space-based weapons”, and was spokesperson for Von Braun in his last years when he was dying of cancer and too ill to speak, and she was one of the witnesses on The Disclosure Project. Here is what she had to say:

Dr. Carol Rosin in the Disclosure Project.

This may be a bit of a diversion, but to clarify: Space based weapons which were supposed to protect against incoming asteroids and Russians and terrorists, were in fact primarily designed to fight “the alien threat”. Von Braun believed that this was “based on a lie”, first that they should be built to protect against asteroids and terrorists, and lastly that there was an alien threat. Even if there was, said Rosin, we basically wouldn’t stand a chance against them, as they can stop a rocket going into space and shutdown nuclear silos. It appears that Von Braun didn’t believe, and the Disclosure Project witnesses don’t believe that there is an alien threat (including the famous 2012 “end of the world”, possibly by alien invasion, but I’ll expound more later), and some of them may even be working in conjunction with aliens to bring about peace on earth. But to further complicate this there are claims of an inter-alien war going on, that is between aliens allied with us (“our brothers”, they call them) and those against us who are trying to subtly take possession of the planet, possibly the “Greys”. Sounds like a continuation of the “war in heaven”? The argument is that by building space based weapons we may be trying to fight an “enemy” who is actually with us, but that in fact we are powerless to do anything in this “inter-alien war” (according to Stone, some 57 species of aliens have been documented and remain classified). Further speculation on my part: Maybe we haven’t been “wiped out” because we are being protected by aliens who look just like us and are in fact “our brothers”, who originate from the same part of the Cosmos as we do.

Sgt. Clifford Stone was an Army intelligence officer responsible for the recovery of crashed alien craft and making contact with aliens. You have to go through all of the You Tube videos to get the full story. Stone was dismissed from his post in 1986, and said this in c.1994:

Clifford Stone circa 1994 - Before Disclosure Project.

To relate this to your post, yes it is possible that we have acquired advanced alien technology and that friendly aliens are working in conjunction with us, and that some “alien” craft are in fact “manned”, but this is still all “classified” information which people like Stone and the Disclosure Project are working to release to the public. So it is quite possible that the craft that flew over us that night were piloted by humans – or aliens.

Life on earth will never be the same again, because we are growing into a new consciousness and becoming more aware of how primitive we really are, and that civilisations far more advanced than we are, are working to raise that consciousness. We are still here, because they want us to be here.

[_Quasimodo]

The trouble with the whole subject of UFO's are sightings like this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41988214/ns/local_news-portland_or/

Things are so easy to fake that it's very hard to believe any sightings. They're just going to have to land in Central Park and give media interviews.