Spirituality or just emotion...?

[_sheryl]

Sheryl,

Nice to see you posting again. I think there may be some things in the physical world which provide a link to the spiritual. From my perspective everything physical is linked and the effects are obvious but to the materialist they need something else. I have found that memories and learned traits can provide a link. But to do so requires a massive undertaking and a long time.

There was a man who rejected Darwinism and believed in acquired knowledge from ancestors this would be a classic Lamarckian concept. Here is his background.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mc ... ologist%29

He set up an experiment to test his beliefs. He trained rats in a maze one generation after the next to see if the rats became faster from one generation to the next. This took twenty years. He showed that indeed the rats became faster and learned quicker. He thought he had proven inherited traits. But because his test was so long and involved it was not repeated by his peers and many rejected his findings as well.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v1 ... 2791a0.pdf

Just the overview of this 1933 article gives a flavor of McDougall's experiment.

In time his experiment was repeated by Agar and the results published in 1953.

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/31/3/307.short

In the last article you can read that they proved that Lamarckian processes were not there. The control group and the active group did not have differences. So all of science could rest easy and Darwin was back on top. But sometime the devil is in the details. Or in this case an unseen influence on the rats.

A man came up with a theory to explain some odd behavior in animals and man, his name is Sheldrake. His morphic field theory is an attempt to describe the influence of the spirit world on this world.

http://www.co-intelligence.org/P-moreon ... cflds.html

What was important in the rat experiment was that the control rats became faster as well without training or a genetic link. Other tests showed links as well. I find this interesting as a subject because I have never had a single person in the material world look upon this data with any interest. They quickly find some article that declares Sheldrake a nut job and drop any investigation. It is as if they don't want to look at anything which may change their view of the world. To me this explains why people could stand before Christ while He walked the earth yet could not see Him as the Son of God. The world is strong and we are weak. Anyway I thought I would share this information.

Hello Frank!

Thanks for the links! I looked them over and if I might share a couple of thoughts.

As one begins to understand the spiritual, the results of these experiences will make more sense.

Two verities come to mind. One is that we are not as separate as it appears in the physical.

When we speak of collective consciousness, we are speaking of the spiritual realms that we access with our mental bodies. In Wisdom Traditions it is taught that there are an array of seven Heavens that comprise our spiritual being, the mental body coming from one of these heavens. And so what humans bring into this world through their mental bodies becomes a play with this heaven - it is actually this heaven that we access with our physical being, as well as beyond the physical, for this Heaven is both internal and external, that is evolving. The evolution of this heaven occurs as humanity accesses higher spiritual energies, or Heavens, brings them in and manifests them here. This is Divine potential actualized. Now the strength of this actualization is affected by the strength or power of the individual souls accessing and manifesting this potential. Take Jesus for example. He was a very advanced soul (able to focus and draw into the lower Heavens with his consciousness in powerful ways) and so he affected this world and all spiritual realms between us and the Divine in everlasting ways. Though he could not do this alone, hence had to have other advanced souls, the disciples, around him, seeking, desiring, to draw in the Divine influxes through these Heavens, actually changing the consciousness of humanity.

[Even though Jesus was such an advanced being, it is taking a while for what he brought in to actually change all of humanity. For example, he taught perfect equality between men and women, between races - actually bringing in a Divine influx or Light revealing this verity, and we are just seeing in the last 100 years this verity becoming implanted in all human consciousness. This actually points to how religious structure, which works to keep human consciousness stuck in the past, becomes a hindrance to Divine influxes.]

Another verity is the reincarnation of consciousness. And so not only is the collective evolving but so is the individual - the two being intimately related.

And so if we apply these verities to the rat experiment, we can glean a little bit of what is happening. The reason the one isolated experiment was so successful was because the lab had created a Heaven within a Heaven we might say - the souls coming into the rats were coming and going out of one rat soul body in the heavens. This One Rat Soul evolved from generation to generation, each successive generation bringing in more of the new knowledge acquired in the previous generation. The reason that all rats did not change or evolve is because this was a very tiny part of the entire rat population, of the One Rat Soul in our world system, so that only a very small part of the Rat Heaven with the Rat Heaven was changing, not enough to change the whole.

And so the strength of this rat experiment was not enough to make a lasting change, but did demonstrate many spiritual verities that Wisdom Traditions have known and taught for many years.

Thank you Frank! It is always good to chat with you.

Peace be within you and yours.

Sheryl

[_sheryl]

Brilliant, thanks for that.
Going back to world war two for a second.
Can you quote me some examples of where spirituality was involved with the allies to help them win - where similar examples cannot be found for the axis?

Hi Drifting,

If one looks into Wisdom Traditions, they will much discussion about that traditions' involvement in WWII. Here is an excerpt speaking of Yogananda's involvement:

As was the case with Sri Aurobindo, Paramhansa Yogananda was said to have been spiritually active in influencing world events, in particular the Korean War. Yogananda stated:

"When South Korea was invaded by the north, I myself put the thought into President Truman's mind to go to its defense. That situation was a threat to the whole world. Had South Korea fallen, the communists would have gone on to Japan, and would then have come up and taken the Aleutian Islands, from where they would have invaded Alaska and North America. The whole world, ultimately, could have been swept up into the materialistic philosophy of communism. For these reasons it was very necessary that South Korea be defended. That is why I have called this a holy war." (16)

Yogananda also commented on the role of sages in influencing the outcome of WWII. As Swami Kriyananda recounts:

"When Hitler first rose to power, Paramhansa Yogananda, for several reasons, saw some hope in that accession. One of those reasons was the unfairness of the Versailles Treaty, which had forced germany into virtual destitution. He also saw, as he told a few people, that Hitler had been, in a former lifetime, Alexander "the great" of Greece, who had shown an interest in the yogis of India. When Hitler allowed himself to be seized by ambition for power, however, that ambition distorted his potentially spiritual leanings. At that point, several masters began to work against him [Aurobindo, the Mother, Narayan Maharaj, and Meher Baba, to name a few who were claimed to have done so].....They..put the thought in Hitler's mind to make mistakes that led to his eventual destruction. They suggested to him from within, for example, to divide his forces and fight both in the east and in the west, and also in Africa. This they did by feeding the confidence he felt in his own ability to win "everywhere." Militarily, there was no need for Germany to divide its fronts. That self-division proved, for it, a fatal error." (17)

From http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/page/page/5488517.htm

In my tradition, it is also taught that our Apostle at the time and his disciples were involved in similar ways to bring down the Axis Powers.

If you read what I said in a reply to Frank, you will glean how a liberated soul is able to influence this world in such ways - by going right into the heaven within the Heaven that the individual soul's mental body is accessing.

Now liberated souls will not do such things without Divine Authority. Without guidance from the Christ.

If anyone was helping the Axis Powers in this way, it was not liberated souls acting under the Authority of Christ, it would have been black magicians who were likewise evil. I do not doubt though that they were receiving such assistance from evil men and spiritual beings.

The Christ Spirit though saw a reason to intervene and was powerfully successful.

Peace be within you.

Sheryl

[_Corpsegrinder]

If one looks into Wisdom Traditions, they will much discussion about that traditions' involvement in WWII. Here is an excerpt speaking of Yogananda's involvement:

As was the case with Sri Aurobindo, Paramhansa Yogananda was said to have been spiritually active in influencing world events, in particular the Korean War. Yogananda stated:

"When South Korea was invaded by the north, I myself put the thought into President Truman's mind to go to its defense. That situation was a threat to the whole world. Had South Korea fallen, the communists would have gone on to Japan, and would then have come up and taken the Aleutian Islands, from where they would have invaded Alaska and North America. The whole world, ultimately, could have been swept up into the materialistic philosophy of communism. For these reasons it was very necessary that South Korea be defended. That is why I have called this a holy war." (16)

Yogananda also commented on the role of sages in influencing the outcome of WWII. As Swami Kriyananda recounts:

"When Hitler first rose to power, Paramhansa Yogananda, for several reasons, saw some hope in that accession. One of those reasons was the unfairness of the Versailles Treaty, which had forced germany into virtual destitution. He also saw, as he told a few people, that Hitler had been, in a former lifetime, Alexander "the great" of Greece, who had shown an interest in the yogis of India. When Hitler allowed himself to be seized by ambition for power, however, that ambition distorted his potentially spiritual leanings. At that point, several masters began to work against him [Aurobindo, the Mother, Narayan Maharaj, and Meher Baba, to name a few who were claimed to have done so].....They..put the thought in Hitler's mind to make mistakes that led to his eventual destruction. They suggested to him from within, for example, to divide his forces and fight both in the east and in the west, and also in Africa. This they did by feeding the confidence he felt in his own ability to win "everywhere." Militarily, there was no need for Germany to divide its fronts. That self-division proved, for it, a fatal error." (17)

From http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/page/page/5488517.htm

In my tradition, it is also taught that our Apostle at the time and his disciples were involved in similar ways to bring down the Axis Powers.

If you read what I said in a reply to Frank, you will glean how a liberated soul is able to influence this world in such ways - by going right into the heaven within the Heaven that the individual soul's mental body is accessing.

Now liberated souls will not do such things without Divine Authority. Without guidance from the Christ.

If anyone was helping the Axis Powers in this way, it was not liberated souls acting under the Authority of Christ, it would have been black magicians who were likewise evil. I do not doubt though that they were receiving such assistance from evil men and spiritual beings.

The Christ Spirit though saw a reason to intervene and was powerfully successful.

Peace be within you.

Sheryl

And let us not forget how Professor Dumbledore helped to bring about the end of World War 2 by defeating the dark wizard Gellert Grindelwald in 1945.

[_DrW]

Religion is a product of cultural heritage. The idea of what God, the soul and the divine are have been ever changing. When cave bears were the most powerful thing man faced, they were some of the first Gods. In Africa, lions were Gods. When man had mastered nature, the most powerful thing was man, himself, and he became a God.

That was very eloquently expressed, thanks for sharing that.

emilysmith,

What Buffalo said plus one.

Profound and well done.
______________________________

Okay, now where did you really get this?

(Just kidding.)

[_Drifting]

Sheryl,

This

"When South Korea was invaded by the north, I myself put the thought into President Truman's mind to go to its defense."

Comes across as someone taking credit for the outcome once it had become clear who was going to win. What did he say prior to the conflict?

[_sheryl]

Sheryl,

This

"When South Korea was invaded by the north, I myself put the thought into President Truman's mind to go to its defense."

Comes across as someone taking credit for the outcome once it had become clear who was going to win. What did he say prior to the conflict?

Hi DrW -

If you study Wisdom Traditions, you might just find the validation you are seeking - records of thoughts and actions to be taken, before the fact. I provided you with examples as requested. The one that is documented, you might find something recorded before the fact. The one that I know about personally was an oral tradition in years past, meaning nothing was written down, so there is only testimony of those who were there, all offered after the fact.

The spiritual journey requires some faith. Even if we can find documentation that claims to be written before the fact, we can still doubt. Documents can be altered. Really the biggest testimony is one's own involvement in a Wisdom Tradition, watching the miracles, the spiritual work, unfold in real time.

Anything other than our own witnessing is less, or subject to distortion.

Shalom!
Sheryl

[_Drifting]

Sheryl,

This

"When South Korea was invaded by the north, I myself put the thought into President Truman's mind to go to its defense."

Comes across as someone taking credit for the outcome once it had become clear who was going to win. What did he say prior to the conflict?

Hi DrW -

If you study Wisdom Traditions, you might just find the validation you are seeking - records of thoughts and actions to be taken, before the fact. I provided you with examples as requested. The one that is documented, you might find something recorded before the fact. The one that I know about personally was an oral tradition in years past, meaning nothing was written down, so there is only testimony of those who were there, all offered after the fact.

The spiritual journey requires some faith. Even if we can find documentation that claims to be written before the fact, we can still doubt. Documents can be altered. Really the biggest testimony is one's own involvement in a Wisdom Tradition, watching the miracles, the spiritual work, unfold in real time.

Anything other than our own witnessing is less, or subject to distortion.

Shalom!
Sheryl

So...he said nothing before the fact. Got it.

[_sheryl]

So...he said nothing before the fact. Got it.

No. Yogananda said lots before the fact, and I think you might find something if you go out seeking. I was pointing out that you asked and I responded, yet you still doubted, and so if you find something recorded as being said before the fact, I predict that you will still doubt the authenticity of the record.

The best evidence is our own personal experiencing and so I was encouraging those who wish to know for certain to seek to witness something here and now.

Shalom!
Sheryl

[_Drifting]

Sheryl,

The OP is about establishing the difference between spirituality and emotion. How do you know that your feelings aren't just you having an emotional reaction to events or words?

[_sheryl]

Sheryl,

The OP is about establishing the difference between spirituality and emotion. How do you know that your feelings aren't just you having an emotional reaction to events or words?

Hi Drifting!

Perhaps my posts earlier were not clear. Emotions or feelings are spirituality. And so an emotional response to events or words is a spiritual or an energetic response to the energy or spirit felt in and beyond the words or events.

In a summary of the hierarchy of worlds or planes we have physical, then emotional or vital, then mental, then supramental. Spiritual in the way that it is commonly used refers to everything beyond the physical. In our tradition, we use spirit interchangeably with awareness or consciousness. And so spiritual is everything we are, except the physical body.

There are more sublime aspects of our spirit, that we are not typically aware of, such as mental before thought, vital before emotion etc. As we awaken spiritually, we become aware of these subtle aspects of ourselves and of all creation.

Blessings!
Sheryl