No three degrees of Glory in 1 Cor 15

[_ldsfaqs]

You are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, there were many minor errors in the Book of Mormon which I mentioned, most of them grammatical and have been corrected. How many in the Bible? Much more! Major errors in the Book of Mormon? None! Major errors in the Bible? There are at least thirty something!

Can you show changes in the Bible like these in D&C ?

http://www.utlm.org/misrepresentingliars/

Do a simple Google search, and you will find a plethora of "changes" to the Bible, let alone all the books that were put into it, removed, etc., or that Christ quoted from, that still exist, but aren't in the Bible, or the differences between Protestant Bibles, Catholic, & Orthodox, let alone all the TRANSLATIONS (not language translations) but in English alone, that vastly differ from each other, change meanings of verses, the NIV being clearly an Evangelical Translation, etc. etc.

The only "changes" to the D&C or the Book of Mormon have simply been to correct scribal or printing errors, etc. And the D&C is slightly different because there were things put in it originally which were not actually "scripture" i.e. revelations from God, etc.

There is nothing "sinister" in Mormonism. Those of us "educated" Mormons know this for a fact. We've compared anti-mormon claims with the actual history, documents, etc., and the anti-mormons like UTLM do nothing but use a little truth to tell great LIES.

Can you tell us Mitten's who does that, God or Satan???

You don't have to believe the same as other's Mittens, but good people don't bear false witness of others. PERIOD!

[_Albion]

The simple response to this nonsense is really quite simple. If the Bible is so full or error as you claim, why don't the "prophets, seers and revelators" of the Mormon Church publish a correct one? They supposedly speak with God... God supposedly directs the "one true church on the face of the earth...God supposedly provided gold plates from which the Book of Mormon is taken...has the Mormon god lost the ability to command and direct the production of a correct and perfect Bible? Joseph Smith worked on a supposed "inspired" translation which the Mormon Church has today. On at least one occasion Smith pronounced it complete...it shouldn;t be too much trouble for "prophets, seers and revelators" to correct any small problems if it is not complete. If it was inspired by God when Smith was alive it should be equally "inspired" today, or did the Mormon god change his mind about wanting an "inspired" version...perhaps he didn't know Smith was going to be killed before he really finished it and changed his mind about it when he heard the news of Smith's murder.

[_Albion]

These scriptures verify no such thing as has been already presented on this thread. The subject of the text in Corinthians 15 is about the differences between the earthy, temporal body and the resurrected body. Paul is draws several comparisons to demonstrate how the resurrected body will be different, using common things such as the flesh of beasts, birds and fish to describe the differences and to demonstrate how the heavenly person (body) will be different from the earthly person (body). He simply uses sun, moon and stars as part of the same comparison. He is not in any way talking about heavens...not one...and certainly not three. That would be totally out of the context and subject of the passage. Paul's point is that there is a heavenly glory, and an earthly glory...just as there is aq glory of the sun, and as glory of the moon. and of the stars. He is making no connection between the number of "glories" because his point is not to focus on "glories" at all but clearly his focus is to emphasize that the spiritual body differs from the natural body in its glorious, incorruptible nature. "It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body." His whole point is to demonstrate the complete difference in nature between the body that dies and the body that is resurrected. Glory in this context is simply not another word for heaven.



The "third heaven" concept Paul is talking about would be easily understood by Paul's hearers and readers in their simple understanding in that time, place and culture. In Jewish culture the three heavens simply are and were: Heaven 1, the sky above us. Heaven 2, that heavens of space beyond the sky. Heaven 3, that place where God dwells.

[_ldsfaqs]

You're wrong Albion.....

You're right in that he's comparing "Resurrected Bodies" with earthly ones, and that's EXACTLY THE POINT....

Resurrected bodies (i.e. US) are giving DIFFERENT GLORY'S IN HEAVEN, hence the "3 Degrees of GLORY" as taught in Mormonism.
And even further, Paul makes absolutely clear, that there ARE "THREE HEAVENS"!!!

Clear, right there in the Bible.....!!!

The Bible is clear in it's words..... The problem is that you're embracing your man-made doctrines over what the plainness of scripture states. And FYI.... I saw this in the Bible LONG before I was ever a Mormon. It's one of many things that showed me how no other religion followed what the Bible actually taught until I came upon Mormonism which fully and perfectly fit what the book actually said, compared to the several other religions I had been in which didn't believe and practice some things, ignored things, got things wrong, where all different from each other, even within the same religion, and on and on.

Opinions are like bh's.... Everyone has them, but that doesn't make them the Lords Church and Truths.

The Bible is clear in it's words, and you ignore the words preferring your own theology.

[_PrickKicker]

CFR

ldsfaqs are you claiming there are only 3? you have not provided a reference about your its clear Paul said it rant.

1 Corinthians 15:40-41

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Your right, not just three, But an Undefined amount, that makes things easier.

Its all relative anyway, and even if relative to the human perspective, it is a non starter as stars can be suns at distance and satellites orbiting the earth can appear brighter than they.

Worlds without end?

Heavens.

But your right according to http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=45cc0f9856c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=e36d5f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

[_Albion]

No, Ldsfaqs, what I don't do is read into the scripture what is not there in order to stretch it to support the ideas of Joseph Smith. The passage is about resurrected bodies and not about heavens as is clearly implied in the passage. Paul does not even mention all three of the Mormon heavens which Smith claims to have named. Stretch it,interpret it all you want...the passage does not say what you want it to say. You also fail to comprehend the simple idea of "three heavens" prevalent in his day and in Jewish understanding.

[_gdemetz]

You're back! You're wrong Albion again! The three heavens you define is merely false evangelical doctrine. Paul is clearly speaking of heavens with different glories as well as resurrected bodies with different glories. Joseph Smith describes this all clearly in D&C 76. If you were in the wilderness with Christ, would you have tempted him to use His power to turn the stones into bread? You seem to want to see a wonderful thing from our prophets. If God instructs them to, then they will!

[_Albion]

Haven't been anywhere, gdemetz. I could say no you're wrong but that's just a pointless back and forth. I think it's a matter of comprehension because the passage is quite clearly a discussion on the nature of the resurrected body so to draw a proof text for something other than that topic is quite absurd. Comprehension 101. The term "bodies" and the term "glory" are not interchangeable for heavens. I think if Paul wanted to talk of three heavens he was quite capable of using the word heaven in his discourse and it is not as if he hasn't demonstrated the use of three things to differentiate the difference between the earthly human body and the resurrected glorified body...hence his use of animal flesh, the flesh of birds and the flesh of fish as a comparison. Perhaps in your understanding animals, bird and fish represent three heavens, too. I wonder,too, why Paul only described celestial and terrestrial bodies...no mention of Smith's made up word (an amalgam) of the two words to make tellestial. Smith was nothing if not inventive. Is there any point in you and I batting this ball back and forth any longer?

[_Albion]

One last point, gdemetz. You say my explanation is evangelical doctrine....it is, in fact, the doctrine of Christianity in general no matter it's label.

[_gdemetz]

Albion, speaking of the resurrected body, it states that there is one glory of the sun, another of the moon, and another of the stars, "for as one star differeth from another in glory, so also is the resurrection of the dead." The scriptures also state that the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of the Father, so where do you think that the ones that don't shine like the sun will go?! They will go to other kingdoms and not the third heaven! Your statement about the heavens, that one is the earth's atmosphere, etc., is not scriptural at all! If you think it is, then show me where it can be found in the scriptures! I heard on TV where this one evangelical had a dream or vision where he saw many body parts stored up in heaven. Do you believe that too?