Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

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_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:my understanding is that it is apparent in the grammar and use of Hebrew. For example, if i write the following:
1. That man is married to that woman.
2. That man is married to that girl.
3. That boy is married to that woman.

In a formal grammatical sense, #1 is the only manner used in the scriptures. So, likewise our use of "adult" denoting pronouns is similar to the way they are used in the scriptures. So, while there is no overt mention of "child" or "adult", it is reasonably inferred because of the blatant use of the adult oriented pronouns. Now if God had been ambiguous and stated that an adult marries an adult, or adults then i might entertain your assumptions...but since He was mature-gender specific i cannot.


So, where does God explain the point at which a girl becomes a woman.....
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:i am sure you had a point to posting this reference, so allow me to be presumptuous - i am not sure why you omitted the necessary verse #30
"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."

In other words, when the Lords commands it, polygamy is acceptable....and if the Lord commands SSM, then so be it...but that ain't happened, nor will it.


Actually, in the Book of Mormon God is saying Polygamy is acceptable under the specific covenant of raising seed.
What seed did Joseph Smith raise from his polygamous relationships?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:So, where does God explain the point at which a girl becomes a woman.....

why? are you confused about the two?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:
Bazooka wrote:So, where does God explain the point at which a girl becomes a woman.....

why? are you confused about the two?


I'm confused about where God explains the point at which a girl becomes a woman.
Please can you point out where He explains it, or is it another of those inconsequential little details that He just leaves up to us to decide?

And...

What seed did Joseph Smith raise from his polygamous relationships?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:I'm confused about where God explains the point at which a girl becomes a woman.
Please can you point out where He explains it, or is it another of those inconsequential little details that He just leaves up to us to decide?

well, i don't think anyone considers it inconsequential...but most people are capable of understanding the distinction, especially in context, i believe you will find many "obvious" details left out of the scriptures...for example, God does not bother to give a detailed description of what a female is, but it is rather apparent.
.....perhaps you should understand the consideration at the time...or the context of our time...because it seems like you are looking for some sort of loophole?

For example, in my culture we accept that a girl is legally a woman at the age of 18 (sometimes we even use the term "young woman" as an emotional and mental bridge between the life of a girl and life of a woman - but there is no legal distinction there). Other cultures and ages may vary, but the concept remains the same...girls are not intended for marriage while women are....if you think that a 7 year old female is a "woman" then you may need to do some serious catching up before you continue on this topic.

Bazooka wrote:And...What seed did Joseph Smith raise from his polygamous relationships?

allegedly 4 (four) to 9 (nine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wives_of_J ... mous_wives
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:
Bazooka wrote:I'm confused about where God explains the point at which a girl becomes a woman.
Please can you point out where He explains it, or is it another of those inconsequential little details that He just leaves up to us to decide?

well, i don't think anyone considers it inconsequential...but most people are capable of understanding the distinction, especially in context, i believe you will find many "obvious" details left out of the scriptures...for example, God does not bother to give a detailed description of what a female is, but it is rather apparent.
.....perhaps you should understand the consideration at the time...or the context of our time...because it seems like you are looking for some sort of loophole?

For example, in my culture we accept that a girl is legally a woman at the age of 18 (sometimes we even use the term "young woman" as an emotional and mental bridge between the life of a girl and life of a woman - but there is no legal distinction there). Other cultures and ages may vary, but the concept remains the same...girls are not intended for marriage while women are....if you think that a 7 year old female is a "woman" then you may need to do some serious catching up before you continue on this topic.

Bazooka wrote:And...What seed did Joseph Smith raise from his polygamous relationships?

allegedly 4 (four) to 9 (nine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wives_of_J ... mous_wives


Is a 14 year old female, a "woman" in your opinion?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _subgenius »

A 14 year old today, in my culture, no.
However, many cultures in history would disagree with me...with some disagreements being more reasonable than others.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_LittleNipper
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Bazooka wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:God does say that a man lying with a man is an abomination. To try and call it marriage isn't going to change anything. Marriage isn't an abomination; therefore, two homosexuals cannot get married to each other. There is the indication that the man is to stay with his parents until he marries. That would indicate a younger individual. Or at least one young at heart. God doesn't miss anything.


Please quote where God says that "man lying with man is an abomination".
Please quote where God says that marriage has to involve "lying with each other".
Please quote where God says you shouldn't marry more than one partner.
Please quote where God determines that 12 year olds shouldn't marry 45 year olds?

Leviticus 18 >>
New International Version

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unlawful Sexual Relations

1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. 5Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.

6“ ‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.

7“ ‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14“ ‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18“ ‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19“ ‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21“ ‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.23“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24“ ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29“ ‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’ 


King James Version of Leviticus 20:13.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
_Droopy
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Droopy »

Bazooka wrote:
Can a believing member of the Church now in good conscience vote for any of the major political parties given all their Leaders support for this bill?



Its possible - while holding one's nose - to vote for the better of the contending parties, unless one is a highly focused single-issue voter and demands absolute fealty on that one issue.

At some point, however, the corruptions is going to pass a point of legitimate support, at which time alternative Zionic institutions and communities will exist as a place of retreat and refuge from Sodom and Babylon.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

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_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

Droopy wrote:
Bazooka wrote:
Can a believing member of the Church now in good conscience vote for any of the major political parties given all their Leaders support for this bill?



Its possible - while holding one's nose - to vote for the better of the contending parties, unless one is a highly focused single-issue voter and demands absolute fealty on that one issue.

At some point, however, the corruptions is going to pass a point of legitimate support, at which time alternative Zionic institutions and communities will exist as a place of retreat and refuge from Sodom and Babylon.


But Droopy,

If you were in the UK and voted for one of the major parties, you would be voting FOR the ratification of same sex marriage (as they all wish to put policies in place to let it go ahead). This would mean you have supported a group whose beliefs/teachings are in opposition to those of the Church which invalidates your temple recommend.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
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