Fulfilled Prophecy?

[_gdemetz]

Albion, you are really confused. Christ stated that "Elias" had come, and the scriptures stated that His disciples knew that He was referring to John the Baptist! Malachi prophesied that "Elijah" would come prior to the great and dreadful day of the Lord, which the scriptures are quite clear that that refers to the second coming!

[_jo1952]

And you know this how? Because Smith said so? "Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and restores all things. BUT IT TELL YOU, ELIJAH HAS ALREADY COME, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that he was TALKING TO THEM ABOUT JOHN THE BAPTIST." NIV. Matt 17:11-13. You would argue with Jesus?

Dear Albion,

When Jesus said "To be sure, Elijah comes and restores all things." I believe He was speaking about the title of Elijah, as an Elijah has the responsibility of restoring things. Jesus was also using a different tense of verbs "comes" and "restores" than He uses in the next sentence.

When Jesus said "But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished." Jesus is no longer talking about someone with the title of an Elijah. He is talking about the spirit that was in the Prophet Elijah of the book of 1Kings. Also notice that Jesus has changed tenses, because He says Elijah has "already come". If Jesus was speaking of the same Elijah, He would have used the same tense in the first sentence: In other words, using words like "Elijah has already come and restored all things".

If you think Jesus was saying that Elijah had already come and restored all things, then what exactly did Elijah DO--what did he restore? The next verse clarifies that Jesus was speaking about John the Baptist; In other words the spirit that was in the body of the Prophet Elijah was the same spirit that had dwelt in the body of John the Baptist. If your interpretation is correct, than what do you believe were the "all things" which John the Baptist restored?

Also in addition to gdemetz's next post about how Malachi prophesied that "Elijah" would come prior to the great and dreadful day of the Lord....and meanwhile Jesus in the flesh is saying "Elijah has already come" but it is NOT the great and dreadful day of the Lord, how can you reconcile your belief?

Blessings,

jo

[_Drifting]

That is not a historical fact! You are absolutely wrong about that! I looked that up before I wrote that post! Yes, most of the Bible is meant to be taken literally. Do you think that God intended to confuse mankind, how ignorant. Writing on kingdoms that one is holding in his hands before other peoples eyes?!? What will it take for you to wake up and open your eyes?!?

When you say 'most of the Bible is meant to be taken literally.' Which bits aren't meant to be taken literally?

This is a double bump because, as usual, gdemetz steadfastly refuse to back up his gum bumping.

Put up or...well you know....

[_gdemetz]

The Bible is a very big book, Drifting, and I can't state in a post which of the thousands of verses are figurative and which of the many thousands are not. Sometimes it is obvious, but in some cases it is not.

[_Drifting]

The Bible is a very big book, Drifting, and I can't state in a post which of the thousands of verses are figurative and which of the many thousands are not. Sometimes it is obvious, but in some cases it is not.

Okay, that's fair enough.
(I'm sensing a far more reflective and considered gdemetz today so I am responding in kind)

Perhaps you can give one or two specific examples of parts of the Bible you think are not meant to be taken literally adn your reasoning behind that.

[_gdemetz]

Okay, for example, Christ stated that He and His Father were one, and that statement, as incredible as it sounds, is one of the most misunderstood statements ever recorded, and it led to the silly Athanasian creed. However, He also stated figuratively that He would pray for his apostles that they may all be one JUST AS He and His Father were one.

[_Drifting]

Okay, for example, Christ stated that He and His Father were one, and that statement, as incredible as it sounds, is one of the most misunderstood statements ever recorded, and it led to the silly Athanasian creed. However, He also stated figuratively that He would pray for his apostles that they may all be one JUST AS He and His Father were one.

Interestingly Joseph Smith, when he corrected the New Testament, wrote a new version of Luke 10, which goes along the lines of saying "the Son IS the Father and the Father IS the Son".

Seems inexplicable considering Joseph Smith corrected Luke after the First Vision is claimed to have happend. However, the version of the First Vision we have today was written in 1842 AFTER the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible. The original First Vision story was recorded in Joseph's own journal circa 1829 and in which he claims to have only seen one personage.
It's evidences like this that clearly show Joseph changing his viewpoint from God and Jesus being one (Bible, JST, Original First Vision) to God and Jesus being seperate (Pearl of Great Price) despite his post dated claim that he saw them both separately in 1820'ish.

[_Albion]

The verses from Matthew 17 are a repetition of what Jesus said in Matthew 11: 14 when speaking of John the Baptist he said: "If you are will to accept it, he (John) is the Elijah who was to come." So twice Jesus clarifies Malachi's prophesy. I accept it, how about you?

Additionally, at the transfiguration, which revealed Jesus in his divine glory as the Son of God, Moses and Elijah appeared. Moses representing the Law, and Elijah representing the Prophets...and Christ was seen in the midst of them as greater than either. Thus is represented the unity of the Old and the New Covenant with the actuality of the New Covenant superior to the Old. All things from the past restored in Christ. Moses and Elijah disappear designating that their great purpose has been fulfilled and ended and only Christ remains. All things are restored and gathered in him...AND HE IS SUFFICIENT.

[_just me]

Okay, for example, Christ stated that He and His Father were one, and that statement, as incredible as it sounds, is one of the most misunderstood statements ever recorded, and it led to the silly Athanasian creed. However, He also stated figuratively that He would pray for his apostles that they may all be one JUST AS He and His Father were one.

Interestingly Joseph Smith, when he corrected the New Testament, wrote a new version of Luke 10, which goes along the lines of saying "the Son IS the Father and the Father IS the Son".

Seems inexplicable considering Joseph Smith corrected Luke after the First Vision is claimed to have happend. However, the version of the First Vision we have today was written in 1842 AFTER the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible. The original First Vision story was recorded in Joseph's own journal circa 1829 and in which he claims to have only seen one personage.
It's evidences like this that clearly show Joseph changing his viewpoint from God and Jesus being one (Bible, JST, Original First Vision) to God and Jesus being seperate (Pearl of Great Price) despite his post dated claim that he saw them both separately in 1820'ish.

Plus there is the Lectures on Faith and how they describe the godhead.

[_gdemetz]

Hello Albion?! Malachi's prophesy is of an appearance of Elijah to restore things prior to the second coming! This is not referring to John the Baptist (as an Elias) nor is it referring to his appearance on the mount of transfiguration. The Jews are very aware of this prophesy, and they leave a vacant seat at the table during on of their fiests for Elijah even as of this year!