Noah's Ark questions

[Guest]

Perhaps your reasons are, or were, their reasons. I don't see it as simply a "hermetic" orientation. In the last century its morphed into forms that might not fit easily under that grouping, like UFO contactees.

Perhaps, although it is odd that you bring UFO contactees into it. I guess I can count on you to make it sound as bizarre as possible.

"Truth is truth, wher'er 'tis found,
On Christian or on heathen ground,"
and worthy of our love and admiration, whether far or near, high or low, whether blazing as a star in the blue vault of heaven, or springing like a floweret from the soil.
--Orson F. Whitney

"The Lord is not restricted in giving invitations to other creations to visit this earth so you need not be surprised if some visitors from other worlds do visit this one." --Joseph Fielding Smith

A well known LDS apologist is a proponent of UFO contactees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTOsD-U9QqM

Warren Astor tells the story of an alleged encounter between a LDS man and an extraterrestrial around 1940. Astor is a frequent writer for both Meridian Magazine and Fate Magazine. Fate Magazine was the first publication to do extensive reporting on UFOs from Kenneth Arnold onward.

Religion is bizarre, you're right. I didn't make it that way but I don't mind pointing it out. There are also aspects of physics and biology that are but they can be explored further and understood. They don't require seer stones, plates, papyri, etc.

[_Lemmie]

I guess I can count on you to make it sound as bizarre as possible.

Ed, you made a huge deal about being treated respectfully last time you were here. Shouldn't that be a two-way street?

The human race clearly is comprised of more than one family group of spirits, some being of the race of gods, and some not.

What do you mean by this, Ed?

I thought that the statement was very clear.
All animals have spirit parents.
Chimpanzees have spirit parents that are celestial Chimps.
Gorillas have spirit parents that are celestial Gorillas.
Neanderthals have Spirit parents that are celestial Neanderthals. They are not gods.
Homo Erectus have spirit parents that are celestial Homo Erectus.
And Anatomically modern humans (Cro Magnon) that are Homo Sapien Sapiens from *before Adam* have celestial spirit parents that are different from Elohim and his wife, although with the same bodily structure, who are not gods. These Cro Magnons are incapable of sin, distinguishing them from the spirit Children of Elohim.

Is this clear enough?

Thank you for clarifying your hypothesis. You have a very different take on the 'pre-adamite theory,' a theory which has been used to justify all manner of racist behavior, as well as a non-standard use of the vocabulary, so I needed additional explanation to understand your approach. If I understand you correctly then, every single member of the entire human race today is fully descended from adam and eve, and each have within them a spirit from your spirit race of Gods, yes?

[_EdGoble]

"The Lord is not restricted in giving invitations to other creations to visit this earth so you need not be surprised if some visitors from other worlds do visit this one." --Joseph Fielding Smith

A well known LDS apologist is a proponent of UFO contactees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTOsD-U9QqM

Warren Astor tells the story of an alleged encounter between a LDS man and an extraterrestrial around 1940. Astor is a frequent writer for both Meridian Magazine and Fate Magazine. Fate Magazine was the first publication to do extensive reporting on UFOs from Kenneth Arnold onward.

Religion is bizarre, you're right. I didn't make it that way but I don't mind pointing it out. There are also aspects of physics and biology that are but they can be explored further and understood. They don't require seer stones, plates, papyri, etc.

Who is this apologist?

[_Maksutov]

"The Lord is not restricted in giving invitations to other creations to visit this earth so you need not be surprised if some visitors from other worlds do visit this one." --Joseph Fielding Smith

A well known LDS apologist is a proponent of UFO contactees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTOsD-U9QqM

Warren Astor tells the story of an alleged encounter between a LDS man and an extraterrestrial around 1940. Astor is a frequent writer for both Meridian Magazine and Fate Magazine. Fate Magazine was the first publication to do extensive reporting on UFOs from Kenneth Arnold onward.

Religion is bizarre, you're right. I didn't make it that way but I don't mind pointing it out. There are also aspects of physics and biology that are but they can be explored further and understood. They don't require seer stones, plates, papyri, etc.

Who is this apologist?

I'm sorry, I spelled his name wrong. It's Aston, not Astor:

http://ldsmag.com/author/warren-aston/

[_EdGoble]

If I understand you correctly then, every single member of the entire human race today is fully descended from adam and eve, and each have within them a spirit from your spirit race of Gods, yes?

No. Every single person on the earth today is *not necessarily* a direct descendant of Adam and Eve, but all by now have within them a spirit of the race of Gods. But Adam would have been the first of that race to inhabit a human body. To be sure, all humans today are descended from many pre-Adamite lines.

[_EdGoble]

I'm sorry, I spelled his name wrong. It's Aston, not Astor:

http://ldsmag.com/author/warren-aston/

Thanks

[_Themis]

One wonders why Adam is needed in a world where humans have been running around for many ten's of thousands of years. At least the original story has him as integral as the first human.

Well, it wasn't to be the first human, so much as the first "man."

There are many kinds of humans. Actual spirit sons and daughters of Elohim, on the other hand, are not necessarily just "human." Spirit children of Elohim have "human" bodies to be sure, as DNA shows continuity from our bodies to theirs.

If we analyze the new October 2016 statement in the New Era, it seems to makes a distinction between regular "humans" (i.e. human bodies inhabited by spirits of whatever) and actual spirit Chidlren of God:

Before we were born on earth, we were spirit children of heavenly parents, with bodies in their image. God directed the creation of Adam and Eve and placed their spirits in their bodies. We are all descendants of Adam and Eve, our first parents, who were created in God’s image. There were no spirit children of Heavenly Father on the earth before Adam and Eve were created. (https://www.LDS.org/new-era/2016/10/to-the-point?lang=eng)

I don't know how far I would take this in my own personal beliefs. But if one is to go by this new statement, it seems clear here, that the most recent statement on Evolution is drawing a new line in the sand. Even anatomically modern humans are not all literal spirit "Children of God." In theory, those before Adam were not of the literal spirit family of Elohim. Therefore the family of Elohim is not the only kind of humans that can supply human-looking spirits to human bodies. The humans that pre-dated Adam are apparently not spirit children of the Gods, but are also of lesser human orders which come very close, and who have lots of intelligence and are capable even of bronze-age technology, but still apparently are not capable of sin. Once we had Spirit Children of Elohim entering those bodies, then we really had the "temporal" age of the earth, the time of sin on the earth, with spirits capable of it. (D&C 77:6)

The Book of Moses speaks of Adam as the first man of all men. This is clear that it has to do with something Spiritual now instead of something literal for the human race. The human race clearly is comprised of more than one family group of spirits with the form of anatomically modern humans, some being of the race of gods, and some not.

It still changes the story about where humans came from. Even the article states we are descendants of Adam and Eve. This is a young earth POV, unless you are going to reincarnate BY teaching about Adam also being Father in heaven. One wonders why Adams earthly parents didn't get to have a fully human spirit. Did Adam's neighbors get a full spirit body who were born after Adam, or do they only go to those who physically have Adam and Eve as a descendant?

[_Maksutov]

It still changes the story about where humans came from. Even the article states we are descendants of Adam and Eve. This is a young earth POV, unless you are going to reincarnate BY teaching about Adam also being Father in heaven. One wonders why Adams earthly parents didn't get to have a fully human spirit. Did Adam's neighbors get a full spirit body who were born after Adam, or do they only go to those who physically have Adam and Eve as a descendant?

I'm still waiting for any real confirmation of any of the "spiritual body" phenomena. Without further evidence I think it belongs with the Ether and Animal Magnetism in the dustbin of pseudoscience. The concept has hardly advanced since the hallucinations of Emanuel Swedenborg around 1750.

[_EdGoble]

It still changes the story about where humans came from. Even the article states we are descendants of Adam and Eve. This is a young earth POV, unless you are going to reincarnate BY teaching about Adam also being Father in heaven. One wonders why Adams earthly parents didn't get to have a fully human spirit. Did Adam's neighbors get a full spirit body who were born after Adam, or do they only go to those who physically have Adam and Eve as a descendant?

I am not required to side with any point of view that is young-earth creationist.
I didn't say that I believe in the part of the pre-Adamic theory that Adam's parents were of Cro-Magnon descent.
I believe that the parents of Adam's physical body are Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. To believe that does not require belief in Adam-God.
The part about Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother living in Eden for a time to raise a family, and their children later partaking of the fruit after being deceived (a la Bruce R. McConkie), does make sense though.
There was clearly some point where Adam's descendants started to intermarry with the people of Cro-Magnon descent.

[_EdGoble]

I'm still waiting for any real confirmation of any of the "spiritual body" phenomena. Without further evidence I think it belongs with the Ether and Animal Magnetism in the dustbin of pseudoscience. The concept has hardly advanced since the hallucinations of Emanuel Swedenborg around 1750.

It's time to advance then.
There are serious scientific hypotheses of dark-matter electromagnetism and dark-matter fundamental particles that are analogs to protons, electrons and neutrons, which have chemical interactions among themselves based on this type of electromagnetism. Therefore, dark atoms and dark chemistry, and therefore dark biology.

To hypothesize that a spirit body is made of dark-matter makes a lot of sense. In other words, we are dark-matter-based lifeforms/entities inhabiting/possessing shells made of baryonic matter.

http://www.space.com/21508-dark-matter-atoms-disks.html

This would explain why spirits have all the attributes of neutrino-like particles that can pass right through other types of matter, because they are not necessarily subject to having to interact with regular electro-magnetism, and therefore, would not be seen or be detectable or touchable, because they don't interact with regular electro-magnetic bonds or with photons. They would have their own type of chemical and electro-magnetic bonds that bond them together in a structure existing parallel to our own world, and be able to exist in the space between regular baryonic particles.

Therefore the true substrate of consciousness lies not in the brain, but in its dark-matter double, and therefore what we see in fMRI scans, etc., is just a mirror image of reactions happening in the dark-matter brain substrate.