Why Do LDS Dismiss the Greater Part of the New Testament?

[_ludwigm]

Yes, but what Paul was referring to were the three levels of heaven; namely the telestial, terrestrial, and the celestial.

I wasn't quoting Paul! I stated that he mentioned the third heaven!

[Guest]

I wasn't quoting Paul! I stated that he mentioned the third heaven! He didn't mention any subdivisions of the heavens!

Why didn't he?
Did he not know?

Paul was speaking to the members of the church in Corinth when he said:

2 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Even though Corinth was a city in Greece, there was a large population of Jews who lived there. It was among these Jews whom Paul preached the Gospel and was able to convert many of them. As such, the members of the church in Corinth were Jewish converts when Paul first preached in Corinth. Later, though, Paul was also converting Gentiles; soon the Gentile converts outnumbered the Jewish converts. Neither group was very fond of the other.

While in Rabbinical Judaism the concept of "heaven" is not really given much consideration, the Kabbalah Jewish belief system has seven heavens. The third heaven is called Shehaqim which is under the leadership of the Archangel Anahel. This where the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life are; it is also the realm where manna, the holy food of angels, is produced.

The Kabbalah is a higher order of Jewish beliefs which were taught to certain Jews after other Jews who had been taught these higher understandings felt they were ready to receive it. Rabbinical Judaism is a temporally-based belief system; whereas the Kabbalah is a spiritually-based (a.k.a. mysticism) belief system which had been handed down through Oral Tradition from Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, etc. As a Pharisee, it is most likely that Paul would have been taught Kabbalah. Depending upon the spiritual readiness of any gathering of members of the church Paul was teaching, he would also have taught the oral tradition of Kabbalah because the Gospel message was founded upon a spiritually-based knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God. Therefore, when Paul spoke of the third heaven, the people would have already understood what he was talking about; and no detailed explanation would have been necessary.

Jesus would have known the Kabbalah. I think it is reasonable to believe that Jesus would have included Kabbalah in His teachings to His Apostles if they were not already familiar with them, precisely because they WERE a higher and a spiritual understanding about God's Kingdom. I do NOT believe that Jesus would have changed the sacred teachings of Kabbalah; rather I believe He added to and expanded upon what had previously been taught. Therefore, the belief in seven heavens would not have been changed by Jesus' incarnation in the flesh; i.e., Jesus did not have an effect on how many Heavens exist.

Blessings,

jo

[_gdemetz]

Drifting, he was an early-day saint!

[_Drifting]

Drifting, he was an early-day saint!

[_Philo Sofee]

I wasn't quoting Paul! I stated that he mentioned the third heaven! He didn't mention any subdivisions of the heavens!

Why didn't he?
Did he not know?

Paul was speaking to the members of the church in Corinth when he said:

2 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Even though Corinth was a city in Greece, there was a large population of Jews who lived there. It was among these Jews whom Paul preached the Gospel and was able to convert many of them. As such, the members of the church in Corinth were Jewish converts when Paul first preached in Corinth. Later, though, Paul was also converting Gentiles; soon the Gentile converts outnumbered the Jewish converts. Neither group was very fond of the other.

While in Rabbinical Judaism the concept of "heaven" is not really given much consideration, the Kabbalah Jewish belief system has seven heavens. The third heaven is called Shehaqim which is under the leadership of the Archangel Anahel. This where the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life are; it is also the realm where manna, the holy food of angels, is produced.

The Kabbalah is a higher order of Jewish beliefs which were taught to certain Jews after other Jews who had been taught these higher understandings felt they were ready to receive it. Rabbinical Judaism is a temporally-based belief system; whereas the Kabbalah is a spiritually-based (a.k.a. mysticism) belief system which had been handed down through Oral Tradition from Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, etc. As a Pharisee, it is most likely that Paul would have been taught Kabbalah. Depending upon the spiritual readiness of any gathering of members of the church Paul was teaching, he would also have taught the oral tradition of Kabbalah because the Gospel message was founded upon a spiritually-based knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God. Therefore, when Paul spoke of the third heaven, the people would have already understood what he was talking about; and no detailed explanation would have been necessary.

Jesus would have known the Kabbalah. I think it is reasonable to believe that Jesus would have included Kabbalah in His teachings to His Apostles if they were not already familiar with them, precisely because they WERE a higher and a spiritual understanding about God's Kingdom. I do NOT believe that Jesus would have changed the sacred teachings of Kabbalah; rather I believe He added to and expanded upon what had previously been taught. Therefore, the belief in seven heavens would not have been changed by Jesus' incarnation in the flesh; i.e., Jesus did not have an effect on how many Heavens exist.

Blessings,

jo

The Kabbalah was not known in Jesus' day. It was later.

[_jo1952]

The Kabbalah was not known in Jesus' day. It was later.

Hi Philo!

Not true. It was an oral tradition that had been handed down through the ages. It wasn't until the Christian era, though, that it began to be recorded. The following link contains some interesting reading:

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/kabbalah.htm

Blessings,

jo

[_hatersinmyward]

Paul was speaking to the members of the church in Corinth when he said:

2 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Paul spoke to the church in Corinth before his journey on the road to damascus. You're taking scripture out of context Jo.

[_gdemetz]

Jo is not taking that out of context, and what she said is accurate. I don't believe the members in Corinth would have accepted Paul as speaking to them before his conversion!

[_jo1952]

Paul was speaking to the members of the church in Corinth when he said:

2 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Paul spoke to the church in Corinth before his journey on the road to damascus. You're taking scripture out of context Jo.

Hello Haters:

I would like to see your source. The following is pretty typical of Paul's conversion and ministry:

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/paultime.html

Blessings,

jo

[_hatersinmyward]

[quote="jo1952]
Hello Haters:

I would like to see your source. The following is pretty typical of Paul's conversion and ministry:


jo[/quote]

I was wrong.

It just seems odd to me a born-again person would talk like that.