SteelHead wrote:Jo, since you say we must ask in faith.....
Lets say there is a practitioner of Confucianism in China receiving the first discussion from the missionaries and wanting to know the truth. The investigator has no background of, nor any comprehension of Christ, or Christianity, but has an honest heart.
In what must his faith be based to get true guidance from the Holy Ghost?
Faith in the HG presupposes the answer.
Faith in Christ presupposes the answer.
Faith in receiving an answer from the HG presupposes the answer.
Circular logic much?
Definition: presuppose - require or involve necessarily as an antecedent condition.
SteelHead,
You have forgotten that all of us are born with the Light of Christ in us. This has the potential to change and/or effect everything you just wrote. Worldview, upbringing, personal experiences, personal CHOICES, all effect how brightly the Light of Christ shines within us; which, in turn, effects our reaction to hearing the Gospel message, should we have the opportunity to hear it, in this life.
Love,
jo
Jo, you didn't answer the question. If said investigator needs ask in faith..... On what must that faith reside?
Also, it seems the only defense to which you repeatedly fall is to say that those of us who are questioning the validity of the witness of the HG have never experienced it.
Do you really think this is a safe assumption to make? How can you be sure that your experiences with the HG are more valid than anyone else's?
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
But Joseph Smith, in explaining the mechanics of receiving pure intelligence, does not describe what this feels like to the physical self as it is taking place. When our spirit receives pure intelligence our physical body is made aware of this --- our mind and body do not remain static when our spiritual self is enlarged. In fact, when our physical body becomes "aware" of spirit self residing in it, our physical self is profoundly effected by the beginning of our spiritual awakening and rebirth which is required as taught by Jesus. So, man is left with trying to describe what is happening to them, and the only ones who will understand what they are trying to do are those individuals who have also experienced the Holy Ghost. This is all understood only on a spiritual level - but the physical self, though still attached to the world, will from that point on, be effected by anything the spiritual self experiences. In order to allow the receiving of pure intelligence to continue, the physical self must be subdued by the spiritual self - which entails a new level of understanding about how it is the choices we make physically can either stiffle our spirit, or allow our spiritual awakening/rebirth to continue to its completion. Hence, we need to be sincerely seeking and humbly asking Father for the Holy Ghost's guidance and direction; which prepares our spirit for further revelation of Truth a.k.a. the receiving of pure intelligence.
Trying to discount the efforts of a man to describe physically something which is happening to his spirit is an indication to me that the person attempting to discount those efforts has either not yet experienced the Holy Ghost, or has not yet learned to discern what is going on. I have found that this usually happens because a person is so attached to the world, that they are not yet in-tuned with their spiritual self.
Love,
jo
Or that we do understand the experience, but no longer interpret it as coming from some invisible deity. Many expereinces can be difficult to describe. Language is not perfect, and some do better at it then others in communicating the expereince. Feelings/emotions/sensations can sometimes be harder to explain.