Bible verse by verse

[_ludwigm]

--- "Papa Joe" version ---

Who is Papa Joe?

[Guest]

Genesis 14:1-24 A war breaks and king Amraphel, Arioch, Chedorlaomer and Tidal attack king Bera of Sodom, Birsha of Gomorrah, Sinab of Admah, Shemeber of Zebiom and Bela of Zoar. The kings of the cities of the plain joined forces in Siddim Valley (where now is the the Dead Sea). 12 years they had been subject to King Chedorlaomer, but in the thirteenth year they rebelled against him. A year later Chedorlaomer and his allies arrived and defeated the Rephaites at Ashteroth-karnaim, the Zuzites at Ham, the Emites at Shaveh-kiriathaim, and the Horites at Mount Seir. Then they turned back to what is now called Kadesh and conquered the Amalekites, and also the Amorites living in Hazazon-tamar.
The rebel kings of Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar prepared for battle in the valley of the Dead Sea. They fought against King Chedorlaomer of Elam, King Tidal of Goiim, King Amraphel of Babylonia, and King Arioch of Ellasar. The Siddim Valley was filled with tar pits.
Losing the battle the armies of kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, some fell into the tar pits, while the rest escaped into the mountains. The invaders then plundered Sodom and Gomorrah and headed home, taking all the spoils of war. Abram’s nephew Lot living in Sodom is also captured, and everything he owned. One of Lot’s men escaped and reported everything to Abram. Abram gathered 318 of his men. Abram caught up with Chedorlaomer at Dan. Chedorlaomer’s army fled, but Abram chased them north of Damascus. Abram recovered everything, and brought back his nephew Lot with his possessions and all the captives. The king of Sodom went out to meet Abram in the King’s Valley.
Melchizedek, the king of Salem (Peace) and a priest of God Most High, (Melchizedek [King of Righteous] is most likely Christ himself) brings Abram some bread and wine and blessed Abram. Abram gives 10% of the goods he recovered to the priest. Bera king of Sodom tells Abram to keep the spoils but give to him his subjects. Abram says he will not keep anything because he made that promise to God. He wants no part of Sodom's treasure. Abram accepts only the food his men have eaten and asks a fair share of goods be given to Abrams allies.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

14 And it cometh to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of Goyim,

2 they have made war with Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboim, and the king of Bela, which [is] Zoar.

3 All these have been joined together unto the valley of Siddim, which [is] the Salt Sea;

4 twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and the thirteenth year they rebelled.

5 And in the fourteenth year came Chedorlaomer, and the kings who [are] with him, and they smite the Rephaim in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzim in Ham, and the Emim in Shaveh Kiriathaim,

6 and the Horites in their mount Seir, unto El-Paran, which [is] by the wilderness;

7 and they turn back and come in unto En-Mishpat, which [is] Kadesh, and smite the whole field of the Amalekite, and also the Amorite who is dwelling in Hazezon-Tamar.

8 And the king of Sodom goeth out, and the king of Gomorrah, and the king of Admah, and the king of Zeboim, and the king of Bela, which [is] Zoar; and they set the battle in array with them in the valley of Siddim,

9 with Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of Goyim, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with the five.

10 And the valley of Siddim [is] full of bitumen-pits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah flee, and fall there, and those left have fled to the mountain.

11 And they take the whole substance of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the whole of their food, and go away;

12 and they take Lot, Abram's brother's son (seeing he is dwelling in Sodom), and his substance, and go away.

13 And one who is escaping cometh and declareth to Abram the Hebrew, and he is dwelling among the oaks of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner, and they [are] Abram's allies.

14 And Abram heareth that his brother hath been taken captive, and he draweth out his trained domestics, three hundred and eighteen, and pursueth unto Dan.

15 And he divideth himself against them by night, he and his servants, and smiteth them, and pursueth them unto Hobah, which [is] at the left of Damascus;

16 and he bringeth back the whole of the substance, and also Lot his brother and his substance hath he brought back, and also the women and the people.

17 And the king of Sodom goeth out to meet him (after his turning back from the smiting of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings who [are] with him), unto the valley of Shaveh, which [is] the king's valley.

18 And Melchizedek king of Salem hath brought out bread and wine, and he [is] priest of God Most High;

19 and he blesseth him, and saith, `Blessed [is] Abram to God Most High, possessing heaven and earth;

20 and blessed [is] God Most High, who hath delivered thine adversaries into thy hand;' and he giveth to him a tenth of all.

21 And the king of Sodom saith unto Abram, `Give to me the persons, and the substance take to thyself,'

22 and Abram saith unto the king of Sodom, `I have lifted up my hand unto Jehovah, God Most High, possessing heaven and earth --

23 from a thread even unto a shoe-latchet I take not of anything which thou hast, that thou say not, I -- I have made Abram rich;

24 save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men who have gone with me -- Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre -- they take their portion.'

[_gdemetz]

"If you can't dazzel them with brilliance, then baffle them with... Nipper, I keep quoting what the scriptures state; "ye are gods," "Adam who was the son of God," but you keep giving irrelevant quotes from Genesis along with man made opinions! You Evangelists want to keep promoting only the Bible, but then you don't really believe what it actually states! You just believe a warp twisted version in a futile attempt to justify you beliefs. However, you're just trying to fit a square peg in a smaller round hole!

[_LittleNipper]

"If you can't dazzel them with brilliance, then baffle them with... Nipper, I keep quoting what the scriptures state; "ye are gods," "Adam who was the son of God," but you keep giving irrelevant quotes from Genesis along with man made opinions! You Evangelists want to keep promoting only the Bible, but then you don't really believe what it actually states! You just believe a warp twisted version in a futile attempt to justify you beliefs. However, you're just trying to fit a square peg in a smaller round hole!

Why do you want to be a god? Whose version is twisted and why? I believe the ENTIRE Bible --- not just select verses of scripture to promote baptism for the dead among other things... Do you believe God created the entire universe in 6 literal days? Do you believe God allowed a World-wide Flood to happen? Do you believe God made Adam from the dust and Eve from a portion of Adam's rib? The Bible clearly states these things. But you want to be a god. Well so does satan... Which side of Christ do you wish to sit on ---- His right or left?

[_gdemetz]

Your version is twisted Nipper. I believe in ALL of the Bible as far as it is translated correctly (for example there are two conflicting accounts of Paul's vision of Christ which the JST corrects). You are the one who is selective, and I have clearly given you and Albion examples of this. For example, I showed you clearly the correct translation which shows that Adam was the son of God, and you don't want to accept that, just as I have given Albion "Ye are gods and all of you are the CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH," and you and he do not want to accept that!

[_LittleNipper]

Your version is twisted Nipper. I believe in ALL of the Bible as far as it is translated correctly (for example there are two conflicting accounts of Paul's vision of Christ which the JST corrects). You are the one who is selective, and I have clearly given you and Albion examples of this. For example, I showed you clearly the correct translation which shows that Adam was the son of God, and you don't want to accept that, just as I have given Albion "Ye are gods and all of you are the CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH," and you and he do not want to accept that!

God is my Heavenly Father and I am His son; however, I am still a created being. God has only ONE SON He called begotten. You nor I are begotten sons.
And the Dead Sea Scrolls are proof that the Old Testament has not changed in 2000 plus years. That would take us to the time of Jesus. As a god of the Most High GOD I am warning you, according to all of GOD's Word, you are in error.

[_Quasimodo]

And the Dead Sea Scrolls are proof that the Old Testament has not changed in 2000 plus years. That would take us to the time of Jesus. As a god of the Most High GOD I am warning you, according to all of GOD's Word, you are in error.

That's not quite true:

According to The Oxford Companion to Archaeology:
The biblical manuscripts from Qumran, which include at least fragments from every book of the Old Testament, except perhaps for the Book of Esther, provide a far older cross section of scriptural tradition than that available to scholars before. While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text from only three manuscript families: of the Masoretic text, of the Hebrew original of the Septuagint, and of the Samaritan Pentateuch. It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Old Testament scripture was extremely fluid until its canonization around A.D. 100. [108]

The books of the Bible exist in several versions that do not always agree. The Bible is a collection of stories that were later compiled into a single book. Those that compiled it had their own political reasons for making it the way we see it now.

[_LittleNipper]

According to The Oxford Companion to Archaeology:
The biblical manuscripts from Qumran, which include at least fragments from every book of the Old Testament, except perhaps for the Book of Esther, provide a far older cross section of scriptural tradition than that available to scholars before. While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text from only three manuscript families: of the Masoretic text, of the Hebrew original of the Septuagint, and of the Samaritan Pentateuch. It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Old Testament scripture was extremely fluid until its canonization around A.D. 100. [108]

The books of the Bible exist in several versions that do not always agree. The Bible is a collection of stories that were later compiled into a single book. Those that compiled it had their own political reasons for making it the way we see it now.

My suggestion is that you read the following: http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconte ... rticle=357

[_Drifting]

The books of the Bible exist in several versions that do not always agree. The Bible is a collection of stories that were later compiled into a single book. Those that compiled it had their own political reasons for making it the way we see it now.

My suggestion is that you read the following: http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconte ... rticle=357

LittleNipper, Here is what the organisers of your source believe:

What We Believe

The following principles of truth are accepted by those who actively participate in this work:

God exists, and man can know that God exists, by means of His manifold revelations, both in nature and through the inspired Word of God, the Holy Bible.
The entire material Universe was specially created by this almighty God in 6 days of approximately 24-hours each, as revealed in Genesis 1 and Exodus 20:11.
Both biblical and scientific evidence indicate a relatively young Earth, in contrast to evolutionary views of a multi-billion-year age for the Earth.
Both biblical and scientific evidence indicate that many of the Earth’s features must be viewed in light of a universal, catastrophic flood (i.e., the Noahic Flood as described in Genesis 6-8).
All compromising theories such as theistic evolution, progressive creationism, threshold evolution, the gap theory, the modified gap theory, the day-age theory, the non-world view, etc., are denied and opposed as patently false.
Christianity is the one true religion; Jesus Christ is the only divine Son of God, resurrected Lord, and Savior of all who lovingly obey Him.
The 66 books of the Bible are fully and verbally inspired of God; hence, they are inerrant and authoritative, and a complete guide for moral and religious conduct.
Salvation is by means of obedience to the Gospel system, involving faith in God and Christ, repentance from sin, confession of faith, and immersion in water for remission of past sins, coupled with a life of growing consecration and dedication.
Those enjoying salvation are members of the one true church, which is the body of Christ.

I assume you agree with them on all of the above...?


Where to start...*facepalm*

[_LittleNipper]

My suggestion is that you read the following: http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconte ... rticle=357

LittleNipper, Here is what the organisers of your source believe:

What We Believe

The following principles of truth are accepted by those who actively participate in this work:

God exists, and man can know that God exists, by means of His manifold revelations, both in nature and through the inspired Word of God, the Holy Bible.
The entire material Universe was specially created by this almighty God in 6 days of approximately 24-hours each, as revealed in Genesis 1 and Exodus 20:11.
Both biblical and scientific evidence indicate a relatively young Earth, in contrast to evolutionary views of a multi-billion-year age for the Earth.
Both biblical and scientific evidence indicate that many of the Earth’s features must be viewed in light of a universal, catastrophic flood (i.e., the Noahic Flood as described in Genesis 6-8).
All compromising theories such as theistic evolution, progressive creationism, threshold evolution, the gap theory, the modified gap theory, the day-age theory, the non-world view, etc., are denied and opposed as patently false.
Christianity is the one true religion; Jesus Christ is the only divine Son of God, resurrected Lord, and Savior of all who lovingly obey Him.
The 66 books of the Bible are fully and verbally inspired of God; hence, they are inerrant and authoritative, and a complete guide for moral and religious conduct.
Salvation is by means of obedience to the Gospel system, involving faith in God and Christ, repentance from sin, confession of faith, and immersion in water for remission of past sins, coupled with a life of growing consecration and dedication.
Those enjoying salvation are members of the one true church, which is the body of Christ.

I assume you agree with them on all of the above...?


Where to start...*facepalm*

Yes I do, and I didn't even read their doctrinal stance. Note: that they, as I --- hold that the entire body of redeemed believers are members of the one true church --- being the body of Christ. People who hate the Bible or take issue with the Bible always seem to find fault even where there is none. The facts are clear that the Old Testament we have is thousands of years old. It is the temple version that Jesus read as a 12 year old boy in Jerusalem. Liberals have a very hard time, because of obvious reasons. The main reason is such would make the fact of "God" far less debatable. It would hurt values such as "gay" marriage, etc...