Statues of Moroni - Graven images?

[_Runtu]

However, mine is in the Bible, which supposedly the LDS church accepts as scripture. Getting to go to Heaven without accepting Christ is non-biblical. What's the point of a savior if you get to go anyway?

I'll make this as clear as I can:

Celestial Kingdom: this is where you get to live with God and Jesus.
Terrestrial Kingdom: You don't live with God and Jesus, but you are rewarded for your efforts nonetheless.
Telestial Kingdom: You don't get to live with God and Jesus here, either.

The LDS church does not teach the same Jesus. The LDS Jesus is a spirit brother of Lucifer, and is one of, I guess, 3 different gods of "The Godhead". Sounds polytheistic.

To someone who's not really sure there even is a Jesus, this seems just plain silly. It's like arguing whether Young Elvis or Bloated Vegas Elvis is the "real" Elvis. Hell, the "different" Jesus argument is just plain lame.

I thought that the LDS church taught that you had to be good enough to make it to the highest level of heaven. That's what was told to me by missionaries, and what I've read.

Maybe these people were wrong, but they seemed to indicate that the highest level had God the Father, the 2nd level had God the Son, and the 3rd level had the Holy Spirit.

Well, yes and no. Jesus visits the lower kingdoms to minister, as I understand it, but only in the CK do you dwell with God and Jesus.

Hence my view of Christ saying to someone "Well, you won't be with me, but you'll still be in A heaven." (Terrestrial?)

That just doesn't make sense. Like I said elsewhere, if you believe in the scriptures, you go to be with Jesus, or you don't. There's not any different levels like some sort of cosmic video game.

I don't believe in 3 kingdoms any more than you do, but that was kind of snotty.

[_MormonMendacity]

You get what you deserve. It's that simple. In front of the Judgment Bar, your entire life will be there to see. You will know what you deserve, and will be glad to have it.

I hope heaven (if it exists) really does have a "Judgement Bar" and that they serve English and German brews. (Can you imagine sitting next to Jesus doing tequila shots! Awesome!)

That truly would be heaven! (Otherwise, my Mormon view of the Hereafter was pretty boring...well...except for the eternal sex part.)

[_ozemc]

I'll make this as clear as I can:

Celestial Kingdom: this is where you get to live with God and Jesus.
Terrestrial Kingdom: You don't live with God and Jesus, but you are rewarded for your efforts nonetheless.
Telestial Kingdom: You don't get to live with God and Jesus here, either.

Thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like the missionaries I talked to were a little confused.

The LDS church does not teach the same Jesus. The LDS Jesus is a spirit brother of Lucifer, and is one of, I guess, 3 different gods of "The Godhead". Sounds polytheistic.

To someone who's not really sure there even is a Jesus, this seems just plain silly. It's like arguing whether Young Elvis or Bloated Vegas Elvis is the "real" Elvis. Hell, the "different" Jesus argument is just plain lame.

Just pointing out the differences. If someone is using scripture (or other sacred texts, pronouncements, etc) to make a point, it only seems logical to me to use that same scripture (etc) to make my point.

I thought that the LDS church taught that you had to be good enough to make it to the highest level of heaven. That's what was told to me by missionaries, and what I've read.

Maybe these people were wrong, but they seemed to indicate that the highest level had God the Father, the 2nd level had God the Son, and the 3rd level had the Holy Spirit.

Well, yes and no. Jesus visits the lower kingdoms to minister, as I understand it, but only in the CK do you dwell with God and Jesus.

See, that's what I mean. You're not with God. What's the point of going to heaven if you're not going to be with Him and are constantly being reminded that you weren't good enough to be with Him all the time ... so Jesus will visit every once in a while to try and make you feel better? That sure doesn't sound like any heaven I'd want to be a part of.

Hence my view of Christ saying to someone "Well, you won't be with me, but you'll still be in A heaven." (Terrestrial?)

That just doesn't make sense. Like I said elsewhere, if you believe in the scriptures, you go to be with Jesus, or you don't. There's not any different levels like some sort of cosmic video game.

I don't believe in 3 kingdoms any more than you do, but that was kind of snotty.

Sorry if it came across that way. But, to me, someone who's never been a Mormon, doesn't believe in any of it, it kinda seems that way. You pass the test, whether that's a temple endowment, proper tithing, or being sealed in a temple, and you get to go on to the next level.
In a video game, you pass the test, beat the boss, etc., and you get to go on to the next level.

[_Runtu]

Sorry if it came across that way. But, to me, someone who's never been a Mormon, doesn't believe in any of it, it kinda seems that way. You pass the test, whether that's a temple endowment, proper tithing, or being sealed in a temple, and you get to go on to the next level.
In a video game, you pass the test, beat the boss, etc., and you get to go on to the next level.

The way I understood it, the moment you accepted Christ through baptism, you were saved in the celestial kingdom. The only way you could not be saved was to reject that acceptance. So, it's not working your way to the top, as it were, but walking away from what you have that sends you to a lower kingdom. You're right that it's "no heaven" to be in those lower kingdoms, but as a couple of members have pointed out, it's where you'll be comfortable. I always thought that made more sense than a heaven/hell dichotomy. I mean, what kind of God punishes his creations infinitely for a finite number of sins?

[_ozemc]

Sorry if it came across that way. But, to me, someone who's never been a Mormon, doesn't believe in any of it, it kinda seems that way. You pass the test, whether that's a temple endowment, proper tithing, or being sealed in a temple, and you get to go on to the next level.
In a video game, you pass the test, beat the boss, etc., and you get to go on to the next level.

The way I understood it, the moment you accepted Christ through baptism, you were saved in the celestial kingdom. The only way you could not be saved was to reject that acceptance. So, it's not working your way to the top, as it were, but walking away from what you have that sends you to a lower kingdom. You're right that it's "no heaven" to be in those lower kingdoms, but as a couple of members have pointed out, it's where you'll be comfortable. I always thought that made more sense than a heaven/hell dichotomy. I mean, what kind of God punishes his creations infinitely for a finite number of sins?

OK, well that makes sense.

I agree completely with your infinite punishment idea.

Lots of things don't make sense now that used to at one time.

[_Runtu]

OK, well that makes sense.

I agree completely with your infinite punishment idea.

Lots of things don't make sense now that used to at one time.

I guess that's a lesson for us in not assuming too much about each other's beliefs. Things are never quite as simple as they seem.

[_harmony]

Sorry if it came across that way. But, to me, someone who's never been a Mormon, doesn't believe in any of it, it kinda seems that way. You pass the test, whether that's a temple endowment, proper tithing, or being sealed in a temple, and you get to go on to the next level.
In a video game, you pass the test, beat the boss, etc., and you get to go on to the next level.

The way I understood it, the moment you accepted Christ through baptism, you were saved in the celestial kingdom.

]

Which is why Mormons are so interested in baptism for th dead. That way, there's no excuse, no whining about the people who died without hearing about the gospel. Everyone will be saved/accept Christ through baptism (due to the industrious use of temples by all active obedient tithe paying LDS members), and then everyone will be exalted according to the way they lived their life. All neatly wrapped up and tied with a bow. And that's how we get "Maria" begin baptised 700 times.

[_Jason Bourne]

"Christians" drive by the holiest building of Mormonism. Do they see ANY outward sign of christianity? NO. All they see is a cold edifice of Mormon money topped with a golden guy who is blowing a horn.

Angels are part of Christian art and culture.

The SLC temple has a Gothic look to it with all of the occult symbols on it.

They are not occult symbols. Not at all. Take some time to study out what they mean. It might be good for you.

To anwer the OP here-No. The statue of Moroni is not an graven image. Do you think the Christus inthe VC on Temple Square is a graven image?

[_MormonMendacity]

Which is why Mormons are so interested in baptism for th dead. That way, there's no excuse, no whining about the people who died without hearing about the gospel. Everyone will be saved/accept Christ through baptism (due to the industrious use of temples by all active obedient tithe paying LDS members), and then everyone will be exalted according to the way they lived their life. All neatly wrapped up and tied with a bow. And that's how we get "Maria" begin baptised 700 times.

Yup. Or there could be a theology that included an omnipotent, omniscient and merciful God who didn't require temporal rites to save dead people who didn't hear the gospel. No apologies required.

[_ozemc]

To anwer the OP here-No. The statue of Moroni is not an graven image. Do you think the Christus inthe VC on Temple Square is a graven image?

Well, if you want to follow the Ten Commandments, yes, it is.

To quote the relevant passage again:

Exodus 20:4-6
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Making any sort of statue, or painting, or what have you and using it for any sort of religious purpose, i.e. even as a symbol of the temple, or as a reminder of what Christ was or did, or as a rendering of what He looked like, is forbidden by this passage. Anything that takes your focus off of God, and puts it on something else, is wrong.

Now, whether you actualy believe it or not is a different story, but, it you do believe it, and use the statue on the temple as a remembrance, etc., then you're going against the commandment.