What's Your Take on Near Death Experiences?

[_ajax18]

I sure didn't want to wake up after having my wisdom teeth cut out. Sometimes even nothing seems like utter bliss to me.

[_Notoriuswun]

Individuals such as pilots and astronauts engaged in centrifuge training have reported similar experiences while passed out from too many G's.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers06.html

This is the most common retort to those who believe in NDE's. But it fails to account for the phenomenon itself - that is it can't explain it. Most skeptics view it as a physiological process that almost all humans go through at death.

From an evolutionary sense, this just doesn't make sense however. What would be the benefit? If a human is already "dead", then 999/1000 it won't be able to come back and commune with others.

Some of you may also be curious of the studies done by Ian Stevenson, MD (who recently passed away, RIP), who did exhaustive research on reincarnation and NDE's. He has documented literally thousands of cases (most Eastern) that support the claim of reincarnation. He has also done some research into NDE's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson

[_asbestosman]

From an evolutionary sense, this just doesn't make sense however. What would be the benefit? If a human is already "dead", then 999/1000 it won't be able to come back and commune with others.

Not everything in evolution presupposes a widespread benefit. What is the benefit of moths flying into lights, or worse killing themselves by flying into fires? In fact in the case of moths we would be asking the wrong question. If we think of moths as using the moon or stars for navigation, then we can also see how a bright flame could confuse them.

So what would be the proper evolutionary explanation for NDE? That I cannot say. In fact, in my opinion, some probably are legitimate experiences of one who died then came back. One possible angle of explanation would be about coping with certain forms of stress. Another possibility is that it's a secondary effect just as with older television sets that have the picture start to shrink into a dot as you turn them off or the inteferrence your vacuum cleaner creates on the TV and radio when you turn it on.

[Guest]

New here. Hi all.

I've been incredibly lost since taking volumnous doses of the red pill (blue pill?) these last couple years. Seeking a place to turn for a semblance of truth in a spiritual foundation, it occurred to me that if anyone had a bead on afterlife, purpose of life, nature of God etc. it would be someone that left and came back.

I read "Lessons from the Light" by Kenneth Ring and a few others over the last six months. Most of the content parallels the comments above. I'll have to say that the information has brought me a thread of hope and peace that perhaps there is an all loving God or light, and that things happen for a reason and we have a higher purpose - and it's all about love.

That being said, I am still perplexed and maybe you could offer me an explanation: Why, why why?? ..would a loving God or light spend the last 30+ years of my life giving me clues that the LDS church is TRUE, when, in the past few years I have painfully discovered that many of these clues were what I KNOW to be "false positives"? How can I trust this loving light - in this light? Particularly since I am finding myself alone and potentially losing my family over this, my war of conscience.

[_Fortigurn]

Mellen-Thomas Benedict, who was dead for over an hour, recorded:

Was he dead, or just 'mostly dead'? If he was really dead, he was unconscious.

[_Fortigurn]

Am reading an LDS book called The Messaage and wondered if anyone has any opinions on NDEs. LDS NDEs reflect LDS beliefs, which are to be expected, but do Hindus have similar experiences where they're greeted by a bunch of holy cows? (Sorry, couldn't resist...). But you get my drift. Are these delusions? Do folks who call Mormons "cultists" have NDEs where their religious beliefs are reinforced? Where Mormons might see Joseph Smith or Brigham Young running around in Paradise, others might see them in the other place. It's always been fascinating to read about such things.

They're electro-chemical processes in the brain, induced by severe trauma. Totally illusory.

by the way, has anyone else on this board ever have one of these experiences?

No.

[_Mary]

Fortigurn, I'm reposting the links to the Dutch study

The Dutch study was interesting Vegas. There are certainly some elements pertaining to people that have 'died', that are difficult to explain. Seeing a piece of equipment fall, recalling a conversation, when they were to all intents and purposes dead. (no brain activity).
I can't explain it.

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/ol ... 12768.html

Here's the study, reproduced in the Lancet

http://www.zarqon.co.uk/Lancet.pdf
and


http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:6L ... cd=3&gl=uk

Html version


Mary

Did you read it. I don't think your explanation covers what occurs in some NDE and Death experiences...

Comments?

[_Fortigurn]

Did you read it.

No I haven't read it yet.

I don't think your explanation covers what occurs in some NDE and Death experiences...

The first thing I want to sort out is whether or not people believe that 'dead' means 'unconscious'. By traditional definition, 'dead' means that one's consciousness no longer exists. Whatever it was that was 'you', has ceased to be. I don't care what people want to claim that they've done while near death, but I don't want them using a definition of 'dead' which really means 'still alive'. It only confuses the entire discussion.

Comments?

I'll comment when I've spent some time reading it properly.

[_Fortigurn]

I've read two of your links, and I'm about two thirds of the way through the Dutch study. Thus far everything I have read reinforces the conclusion that this is a physiological and psychological phenomenon, with a physiological trigger.

[_Mary]

Fortigurn. My husband has drawn similar conclusions to you. We had our first ...ahem...heated debate on our honeymoom of all places, about George Ritchie's book. 'Return from tomorrow'.

http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html

Some of these people have been pronounced dead because there was no brain activity, no pulse, and obviously no heart beat. I don't know how else you can define death. To all intents and purposes they were dead, using the perhaps limited sophistication of hospital monitoring equipment. Some had their eyes covered, but could see perfectly and describe what had happened with senses that were shut down.

I think 'some' of the experiences are explainable but there is a minority of cases that even the doctors will admit that they cannot explain.

Just out of interest I download an astronomy picture each day, and this one particularly interested me.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070318.html

It's probably lazy research!, but my experience in life has taught me that there is more to life than this physical universe.
I'm open minded about the whole thing..