Home Teaching the Bishop - A Lesson Learned on Contention

[_stemelbow]

Indeed, if we can realize love and peace is the ultimate goal all the silly contentious disagreements seem meaningless in a way. And I also agree discussing disagreements can be beneficial to all involved. It just so happens they get too contentious. If we can avoid the contention and discuss our disagreements kindly to each other, then we'd have a much nicer place to converse.

[_Themis]

It's not a very efficient way of gaining converts. The Church believes and I also can agree that if someone is converted by the Spirit then none of these other things matter. The inefficient route of year long study is easier on the rest of us.

Given the outrageously low retention rate of new converts, I'm not sure it's as "efficient" as the church thinks.

A year long study period will increase retention and lower baptisms. In the end I doubt you would see any real difference except on paper. Spiritual conversion is just emotions and feelings you convince someone is the spirit telling you the church is true. It might work on some, but usually not very long for most of those. IF you can get them to have a high intensity expereince in relation to the church in some way this can cause long term conversion as long as they interpret it as the spirit communicating the church is true.

[_schleppenheimer]

SethPayne -- your OP was timely for me -- I really appreciate the lesson.

I'm tired of the fighting. I love debate, as long as it is built on respect. But the sniping, the unkindness -- it just turns me off. Sometimes I'm the recipient, at other times I fall into the sniper-camp, and I'm ashamed of myself.

I miss the days when I felt like I was in agreement with everybody in the church. Those were great days. Wish I could find a place like that again -- or just learn to not care...

[_madeleine]

Perhaps it would be more efficient if the church followed the Catholic church's lead, and required a year of study (of the entire church--doctrine, history, warts and all) prior to allowing baptism.

It's not a very efficient way of gaining converts. The Church believes and I also can agree that if someone is converted by the Spirit then none of these other things matter. The inefficient route of year long study is easier on the rest of us.

The year long study is for non-Christians, the process being called the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. Converts from Mormonism fall into this group.

People who are well formed in the Christian faith, such as those coming from a mainline Protestant background, don't require a year in Catholic faith formation. In our parish they work individually with a Priest or Deacon and are received fully into the Catholic Church as soon as they are ready.

The way to combine the best of both worlds, imho, is for the Church to go after liberals and other unbelievers and get them out of the Church or actually converted. In so doing, you don't have as much erroneous teaching that one can still believe and do or believe that which is contrary to doctrine and still be a member in good standing. To some degree, I see that beginning to happen.

This is one of the reasons that a year long faith formation is required in the United States. As a friend says, "All the slots for nominal Catholics are filled." ;)

That being said, a person who has entered the catechumenate has done so via the Rite of Acceptance. Such a person is a part of the parish, the same as any parishioner. They are just at a different point in their journey of faith, that of, a point where discernment, faith formation and Christianization are the focus.

[_moksha]

Madeleine, I can well understand why it would take us Mormons an entire year to swallow the Papal bull. As long as there is plenty of A-1 Bold & Spicy at those weekly Catachumen meetings then the year will progress along nicely.

[_Joseph]

The 'papal bull' is harder or easier than 14 year old plural 'wives' who have been groomed in the house of the husband for a few years before being plucked for the honor of 'marriage'?

[_madeleine]

Madeleine, I can well understand why it would take us Mormons an entire year to swallow the Papal bull. As long as there is plenty of A-1 Bold & Spicy at those weekly Catachumen meetings then the year will progress along nicely.

moksha...no one is forcing anyone to swallow anything, spicy or plain.

As I already said, it is a time of discernment. If/when a person wants to go, they go. and no one will be showing up at their door trying to talk them into coming back.

But yes, Mormons do need to be Christianized.