Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

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_CSA
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _CSA »

LDSToronto wrote:Droopy,

Oaks essentially says that all sexual feelings can be overcome outside of marriage. He further states that sex is only for those married. If a man is married to a man, legally, in Canada, there seems to be an implication that the church must recognize that those two men have a divine right to engage in sexual activity.

Perhaps you can elaborate on this interesting loophole.

H.


I know of divorced men and women who have lead celibate lives as single individuals. In counseling one man, he stated that his heterosexual sexual desires quickly were squelched as he focused on more important things in his life. So why can't sexual feelings be overcome?

The church recognizes that the marriage between a man and women is often started to bring about a family. While there are some who can't have children they have the opportunity to have a family through adoption. What use is it for two males or two females to get married when they can not produce offspring? What purpose is marriage then if this primary factor of marriage can not be obtained.

Every child should have the opportunity to be raised by a mother and father because this is the ideal form of a family. In some cases it is not so, and a child is raised by a single parent or by same sex partners. While some of these children may deserve our pity, it is often the selfish desires of some that bring about a family condition that may be undesirable.
_Buffalo
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _Buffalo »

CSA wrote:Droopy,

You hit the nail right on the head. Lust in one's heart based on sexual desire is clearly against what is considered proper in terms of church standards. Now within a marriage between a man and a woman there can be all types of sexual desire and it really does not matter. Isn't SSA simply unbridled lust, and isn't lust wrong in the eyes of the church?


Isn't OSA (opposite sex attraction) simply unbridled lust, and isn't lust wrong in the eyes of the church?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
CSA wrote:Droopy,

You hit the nail right on the head. Lust in one's heart based on sexual desire is clearly against what is considered proper in terms of church standards. Now within a marriage between a man and a woman there can be all types of sexual desire and it really does not matter. Isn't SSA simply unbridled lust, and isn't lust wrong in the eyes of the church?



This is not congruent with LDS doctrine.



This is true. It is official doctrine, never retracted, that oral sex within marriage is a most unholy and abhorrent practice.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:One male dog simulating sexual intercourse on another male dog is not homosexual behavior; its masturbation driven by the intense chemical stimulation of a nearby female dog presently in heat. A human leg will do just as well.


Goodness. I suppose this line of reasoning might be used to successfully convinced oneself that one is not really gay, just "masturbating" driven by lust for females. :)
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_just me
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _just me »

CSA wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:Droopy,

Oaks essentially says that all sexual feelings can be overcome outside of marriage. He further states that sex is only for those married. If a man is married to a man, legally, in Canada, there seems to be an implication that the church must recognize that those two men have a divine right to engage in sexual activity.

Perhaps you can elaborate on this interesting loophole.

H.


I know of divorced men and women who have lead celibate lives as single individuals. In counseling one man, he stated that his heterosexual sexual desires quickly were squelched as he focused on more important things in his life. So why can't sexual feelings be overcome?

The church recognizes that the marriage between a man and women is often started to bring about a family. While there are some who can't have children they have the opportunity to have a family through adoption. What use is it for two males or two females to get married when they can not produce offspring? What purpose is marriage then if this primary factor of marriage can not be obtained.

Every child should have the opportunity to be raised by a mother and father because this is the ideal form of a family. In some cases it is not so, and a child is raised by a single parent or by same sex partners. While some of these children may deserve our pity, it is often the selfish desires of some that bring about a family condition that may be undesirable.


Marriage is about a lot more than having children.

Not only do we allow sterile people to marry we also allow post-menapausal women to marry and impotent men. We also allow fertile couples who choose not to have children to get married. We even allow people who have opted to become sterilized through medical procedures to get married.

A legal marriage is obtained for many, many reasons other than to produce offspring....which can easily be done without the certificate.

Everyone who has kids has them for selfish reasons. You can't say that "less than ideal" families (according to you) are selfish when they have kids but the man and woman couple who has kids is somehow *not* selfish. LOL Most people have kids because they really want kids. Others find themselves having kids because of poor planning and whatnot. I highly doubt there is some huge discrepency in the reasoning behind having children. Someone should do a study.

Why *should* sexual urges and feeling be overcome and forever denied? There is nothing wrong with them. In fact, an active sexual life, especially in a LTR, can lead to living longer and healthier and happier. It provides pleasure, comfort, bonding and all kinds of beneficial things.

I think that more sex could bring about world peace.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_CSA
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _CSA »

just me wrote:I think that more sex could bring about world peace.


I think you are confusing sex with love. What the world needs is more love not necessarily more sex. Although if more people were busy having sex there might be less time for war.
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _just me »

CSA wrote:
just me wrote:I think that more sex could bring about world peace.


I think you are confusing sex with love. What the world needs is more love not necessarily more sex. Although if more people were busy having sex there might be less time for war.


Nope, I'm not confusing the two. I think both would help.
I know a lot of people who are a lot easier to get along with after they've gotten laid..
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _Buffalo »

Sex is a normal part of human development. Any adult who purposefully abstains from consensual, desired sex is engaging in an unhealthy and unnatural practice.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Nomad
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _Nomad »

I recently read this 1990 article by Orson Scott Card: Hypocrites of Homosexuality

I agree with Card's viewpoints on this issue.
... she said that she was ready to drive up to Salt Lake City and confront ... Church leaders ... while well armed. The idea was ... dropped ... [because] she didn't have a 12 gauge with her.
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_cacheman
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Re: Approaching SSA: Questions of Doctrine and Charity

Post by _cacheman »

Nomad wrote:I recently read this 1990 article by Orson Scott Card: Hypocrites of Homosexuality

I agree with Card's viewpoints on this issue.

From Card's article:
Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those whoflagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.

Are there other 'moral' behaviors that you believe should lessen an individual's citizenship? Perhaps fornicators... or adulterers? What level of morality should a person aspire to in order to remain an acceptable, equal citizen?

cacheman
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