If the Book of Mormon is true...

[_stemelbow]

Thanks stem, not legally binding but your Eternal salvation does depend on you understanding what the Gospel is and what it isn't, doesn't it?

hey jon, I'm pretty serious when I say I'm not really into the legalistic approach to it all. What does "understanding what the Gospel is" mean? I don't know if people have to be able to articulate what the gospel is, necessarily, any more than saying its very important for me to learn to love others in this life, repent of my sins and make Christ central in my thoughts and actions. So I say to your question, i don't know. I ain't the person who determines exaltation(which is what I suspect you mean by Eternal Salvation).

[_Daniel Peterson]

stemelbow, I don't think that the critics made a good argument at all that Grant Palmer is in any relevant sense an insider with respect to the historiography of Mormonism. In my opinion, their arguments on the matter were pathetic, desperate, and ad hoc.

But we can agree to disagree on that one.

This quote is used from the Book of Mormon in the link provided by Mr Peterson to show what is meant by the term 'fulness of the Gospel'.

And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

So it would seem that Celestial marriage (according to the Book of Mormon) is not an integral part of the Gospel and you can stand before God 'guiltless' without one. Who knew...

As I say, caricatures and straw men.

Incidentally, Noel Reynolds becomes president of the Mount Timpanogos Temple in the fall (and I suspect, for that and other reasons, that he believes in temple marriage).

[_jon]

Thanks stem, not legally binding but your Eternal salvation does depend on you understanding what the Gospel is and what it isn't, doesn't it?

hey jon, I'm pretty serious when I say I'm not really into the legalistic approach to it all. What does "understanding what the Gospel is" mean? I don't know if people have to be able to articulate what the gospel is, necessarily, any more than saying its very important for me to learn to love others in this life, repent of my sins and make Christ central in my thoughts and actions. So I say to your question, i don't know. I ain't the person who determines exaltation(which is what I suspect you mean by Eternal Salvation).

Awww Stemmy me old fruit, if only the Church were as non legalistic as you - it would have more followers.
Sadly the Church makes thing either right or wrong, do all these things or else, it's a black or white environment where grey just isn't good enough.
I think you and I are philosophically quite similar.
Sure I'm an acerbic personality but that stems (whoops didn't even mean that one) from a Church black/white upbringing. I'm happiest in the land of grey. Sounds like you are too.

[_stemelbow]

stemelbow, I don't think that the critics made a good argument at all that Grant Palmer is in any relevant sense an insider with respect to the historiography of Mormonism. In my opinion, their arguments on the matter were pathetic, desperate, and ad hoc.

But we can agree to disagree on that one.

Good. 'cause according to some here, locking horns with you will put me in some pretty hot water. I don't need that. but in all seriousness, I'm sure I wouldn't stand a chance anyway, so its good we can let it go.

[_stemelbow]

Sure I'm an acerbic personality but that stems (whoops didn't even mean that one) from a Church black/white upbringing. I'm happiest in the land of grey. Sounds like you are too.

I pretty much am happier in the land of grey. Thanks for noticing that. I don't like being pegged some arrogantly, conservative, dogmatic Mormon. I don't think that's me at all, even if I still recognize I am TBM. Go figure.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Good. 'cause according to some here, locking horns with you will put me in some pretty hot water. I don't need that. but in all seriousness, I'm sure I wouldn't stand a chance anyway, so its good we can let it go.

Actually, I'm just pretending to be nice, in order to lull you into a state of false security. When the Danites bust down your door -- did you really think that name was a coincidence? -- you'll wish that you had agreed with me, but it'll be too late.

[_jon]

Sure I'm an acerbic personality but that stems (whoops didn't even mean that one) from a Church black/white upbringing. I'm happiest in the land of grey. Sounds like you are too.

I pretty much am happier in the land of grey. Thanks for noticing that. I don't like being pegged some arrogantly, conservative, dogmatic Mormon. I don't think that's me at all, even if I still recognize I am TBM. Go figure.

I don't have you pegged as arrogant, conservative or dogmatic.
To be fair, I don't have you pegged as TBM either. Your views/leanings are too liberal for that, IMHO. But that is a good thing in my book.

[_stemelbow]

I don't have you pegged as arrogant, conservative or dogmatic.
To be fair, I don't have you pegged as TBM either. Your views/leanings are too liberal for that, IMHO. But that is a good thing in my book.

I think my new goal is the rock the world of those who think TBMs can't be liberal in their veiws and leanings. It seems to me there's far more room for diversity among us faithful LDS types than folks here give us credit for.

[_stemelbow]

Actually, I'm just pretending to be nice, in order to lull you into a state of false security. When the Danites bust down your door -- did you really think that name was a coincidence? -- you'll wish that you had agreed with me, but it'll be too late.

Lol. Sadly it seems like some here think this type of stuff does happen. Just a minute I swear I just heard my door abruptly fly open...

[_jon]

I don't have you pegged as arrogant, conservative or dogmatic.
To be fair, I don't have you pegged as TBM either. Your views/leanings are too liberal for that, IMHO. But that is a good thing in my book.

I think my new goal is the rock the world of those who think TBMs can't be liberal in their veiws and leanings. It seems to me there's far more room for diversity among us faithful LDS types than folks here give us credit for.

Stem, I don't think you'll find too many issues with expressing liberal views here, Sunday School on the other hand...
Unfortunately, or so it seems to me, you cannot be TBM and liberal, it's either/or. I read on another thread that you are 'expecting' in the not too distant future - good luck, I hope all goes well with that.