Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _Jersey Girl »

truth dancer wrote:Let's see if I am a prophetess.

Within my lifetime, I believe we will see the Book of Mormon move from being understood by TBMs as a true account of real people, to a nice inspired story to teach us some lessons.

There will come a time when apologists claim the Book of Mormon was never intended to be taken as historical or factual, and any suggestion of such is a tactic used by critics to harm the LDS church.

These podcasts are a must listen.

~td~


I've been saying that for literal years!

Jersey girl

(the prophetess and "the other dancer")
:-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Dad of a Mormon
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _Dad of a Mormon »

truth dancer wrote:Let's see if I am a prophetess.

Within my lifetime, I believe we will see the Book of Mormon move from being understood by TBMs as a true account of real people, to a nice inspired story to teach us some lessons.

There will come a time when apologists claim the Book of Mormon was never intended to be taken as historical or factual, and any suggestion of such is a tactic used by critics to harm the LDS church.

These podcasts are a must listen.

~td~


There are several splinter groups off of the LDS church and only one that is to the left of the main church. That group (Community of Christ) has a much more realistic view of Mormon history and the Book of Mormon. It also has less than 5% of the members than the church that believes there really were ancient Jews that built boats and sailed to America.

The LDS church doesn't stay together in spite all of the irrational beliefs that it has, but to a large degree because of them. It may slowly change and a few really weird beliefs that are difficult for most members may fall away and/or be de-emphasized, but the core beliefs will still be embraced. They have to be. Otherwise, the church shrinks or disintegrates.
_DrW
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _DrW »

Dad of a Mormon wrote:There are several splinter groups off of the LDS church and only one that is to the left of the main church. That group (Community of Christ) has a much more realistic view of Mormon history and the Book of Mormon. It also has less than 5% of the members than the church that believes there really were ancient Jews that built boats and sailed to America.

The LDS church doesn't stay together in spite all of the irrational beliefs that it has, but to a large degree because of them. It may slowly change and a few really weird beliefs that are difficult for most members may fall away and/or be de-emphasized, but the core beliefs will still be embraced. They have to be. Otherwise, the church shrinks or disintegrates.

If you are right (and I hope not, but cannot argue from evidence), what does this say about the state of much of humankind?

Do a significant portion of the people on Earth really need to be sustained by belief in magic as represented by made-up myths and lies to be able to cope with life?

Well meaning myths and lies, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, are for children - human beings not yet fully formed whose parents try to control their behavior with threats of punishment and promises of reward from some magic supernatural being.

Not a good idea to begin with, but very harmful if the child does not recognize this meme in their life as they become adults and understand that, in the end, the probability of God is no greater than the probability of Santa Clause, and that for many, much of life is literally wasted in trying to please these nonexistent beings.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_mormonstories
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _mormonstories »

Dr. Peterson -- I'd love for you/FAIR/FARMS to provide someone to interview as a response to Dr. Coe. Please let me know if you can arrange something. I have been trying for many years to provide a balance of perspectives on Mormon Stories, and look to FAIR/FARMS to help out with this.

Thanks in advance.
_Buffalo
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _Buffalo »

I just got done listening. I don't know how many orthomos will subject themselves to this much cognitive dissonance, but this really lays out the hard reality about the Book of Mormon. He also pulls no punches in regards to the academic credibility of the apologists (spoiler: they have none).
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_DrW
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _DrW »

mormonstories wrote:Dr. Peterson -- I'd love for you/FAIR/FARMS to provide someone to interview as a response to Dr. Coe. Please let me know if you can arrange something. I have been trying for many years to provide a balance of perspectives on Mormon Stories, and look to FAIR/FARMS to help out with this.

Thanks in advance.

Apologists certainly don't get such courteous, well intentioned (and dangerous) offers very often. Certainly I am not the only one who would like to hear such an interview. However, I would also guess that it is unlikely to ever take place.

Apologetics is about religion and the unfounded support of unfounded belief. It is not about science, or fact, or even truth.

Good luck.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

It so happens that Mark Wright (who recently completed a Ph.D. in Mesoamerican studies under Karl Taube at the University of California at Riverside) will be doing a fireside about archaeology and the Book of Mormon in Southern California this coming Sunday at 7pm (Long Beach East Stake Center, 4142 Cerritos Ave, Los Alamitos, CA 90720). While it wasn't and isn't intended as a reply to Mike Coe, many of the issues Coe raises will be addressed in the presentation.

Long Beach East Stake Center
4142 Cerritos Ave
Los Alamitos, CA 90720
_mormonstories
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _mormonstories »

Daniel Peterson wrote:It so happens that Mark Wright (who recently completed a Ph.D. in Mesoamerican studies under Karl Taube at the University of California at Riverside) will be doing a fireside about archaeology and the Book of Mormon in Southern California this coming Sunday at 7pm (Long Beach East Stake Center, 4142 Cerritos Ave, Los Alamitos, CA 90720). While it wasn't and isn't intended as a reply to Mike Coe, many of the issues Coe raises will be addressed in the presentation.

Long Beach East Stake Center
4142 Cerritos Ave
Los Alamitos, CA 90720


Daniel -- Could you approach Mark about coming on Mormon Stories, by chance? Or send me his contact information?

Thanks.
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Coe's malarkey is a good 30 years, and way more common anti-mormon chestnuts OLD.....

He's a joke when it comes to modern LDS scholarship. Plus, he clearly never even knew it back when he was half alive, but he especially doesn't now.

He understands and deals with nothing related to Mormonism, and yet he's somehow an "expert" on commenting on how Mormonism relates to Archeology??? Please.

This is like those stupid Christian anti-mormon videos on either the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham which pulls out "experts" who know NOTHING about LDS scholarship and materials, people who are only experts in their fields, but know nothing about how LDS materials relate.

That's bearing false witness at it's core.... tisk tisk... :(
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Equality
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Re: Yale Academic Looks at Book of Mormon Archeology

Post by _Equality »

ldsfaqs wrote:Coe's malarkey is a good 30 years, and way more common anti-mormon chestnuts OLD.....

He's a joke when it comes to modern LDS scholarship. Plus, he clearly never even knew it back when he was half alive, but he especially doesn't now.

He understands and deals with nothing related to Mormonism, and yet he's somehow an "expert" on commenting on how Mormonism relates to Archeology??? Please.

This is like those stupid Christian anti-mormon videos on either the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham which pulls out "experts" who know NOTHING about LDS scholarship and materials, people who are only experts in their fields, but know nothing about how LDS materials relate.

That's bearing false witness at it's core.... tisk tisk... :(


I am quoting this for posterity and for the sake of the many people who lurk here, especially those who are "on the fence" or "waffling" or "halting between two opinions." Please go listen to the 3-hour podcast with Professor Coe. Then come back and read this response from ldsfaq. Then ask yourself: who has the evidence on his side? Who sounds rational? Who relies on repeated observations of disinterested persons? Who makes the most sense? Who cites facts? If this were a court of law and your heard arguments and assessed the evidence from the two sides, and had to render a verdict, how would you rule? Is it even close? Is this even a contest? Is there any doubt to speak of?
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
"The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
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