Buffalo wrote:Of course we are. Unless you're hearing voices or getting angelic visitations or your typewriter is running by itself to type "The Church is True™, baby!" then we're talking about feelings. You may interpret them differently, but it's still something you're feeling.
Well, you're wrong...sorry.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the btruth of all things.
Moroni's Challenge purports to be a way to be a way to determine the truth of "all things." If it is what it says what it is, then why do the Brethren have such a difficult time distinguishing truth from falsehood?
Here is one possible reason...people are not perfect. You take your reference out of context and you fail to recognize the deliberate phrasing of your own quote. It clearly states that you "may know" it does not read "shall know".
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Buffalo wrote:Of course we are. Unless you're hearing voices or getting angelic visitations or your typewriter is running by itself to type "The Church is True™, baby!" then we're talking about feelings. You may interpret them differently, but it's still something you're feeling.
Well, you're wrong...sorry.
Care to elaborate on why?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
stemelbow wrote: Feelings can only reliably tell you about your own psyche. .
Actually, they often don't even do that reliably. It may seem counter intuitive but it is in principle possible to even be wrong about whether or not one is in pain (Discussed in Dennett's CE). Every feeling soon (immediately) becomes a highly interpreted memory or "mismemory".
Feelings certainly play a role in our understanding of the world but only when they relate in a straightforward way with ordinary places, people, and things in a frank and generally public manner.
A feeling that one is being watched by Martians is as epistemically useless to the person having the feeling as it is to others.
Last edited by W3C [Validator] on Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
subgenius wrote:Balderdash! Only Spock would utter such nonsense. "Feelings" worked quite well for Spider-Man. Are you so void of confidence and self-worth that you do not trust your physical existence? Or are you so arrogant and egotistical that if you can't "add it up" then it ain't real? Your generic condemnation of cognitive and instinctual emotions is a blatant cry of intellectual dishonesty. The irony of those who would claim that we are bound only by the rules and dictates of the physiological, yet when convenient, contradict those claims with a notion that something is "greater" than nature.....and that something is always "themselves". amusing
LOL I hope you know that spider-man is a fictitious character.
Moroni's promise is not very good. The first clue we get is that the author is from a Christian dominated part of the world with the requirement that one has to have faith in Christ first. Also it never says what the power of the Holy Ghost is. Anyone who wants to believe can just think any feelings are the holy Ghost, or any random happening in their lives is the power of the holy Ghost telling them the Book of Mormon is true. I know many who do just that. Something happens in their lives and they interpret it as God telling them the Book of Mormon or church is true. This is worse then just being unreliable. It's a method that allows people to make up what ever they want and call it God or the Holy Ghost, but then I think that was the point of the author Joseph Smith and any who may have been involved in it's production.
I would add for stem's sake that feelings is the term most members will use in describing what they believe to be the holy ghost. Apologists tend to avoid this and say it is much more then just feelings to get around criticisms of it, but feelings really do come in so many varieties, and what you do not call feelings others may very well use the term.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
Buffalo wrote:Yes, you asserted that, but would you like to explain how?
I don't deny that feelings play a part, but there are impressions on the midn, thoughts and ideas, there are voices involved. Its not just feelings.
You hear voices?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.